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Author | Topic: Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: Well, with all that incest, polygamy, and concubine taking maybe it wasn't so bad? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I checked five versions, including one in Hebrew, and they all say 'I will not abide with man forever, therefore his days shall be 120 years.' I'm not sure where you are getting this supposed equivocation. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Gen. 7:6 Noah is 600. Gen 9:28 Noah lived 350 years after the flood Gen 9:29 We get Noah's age at death of 950. Gen 11:10-11 Shem has Arpachshad 2 years after the flood when he was 100 and then lived 500 years after that Gen 11:12-13 Arpachshad begat Shelah at 35 and then lived 403 years. Gen 11:14-15 Shelah begot Eber at 30 and then lived 403 years. Gen 11:16-17 Eber begot Peleg at 34 and then lived 403 years. Gen 11:18-19 Peleg begot Reu at 30 and then lived 209 years. Good enough? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: As joz points out, funk, only a few names were of people born before the flood. If you look at the list I gave, you'll notice that it is a genealogy, and that the Bible gives conception dates as YEARS AFTER THE FLOOD. Secondly, I stopped listing not because I ran out of names but becuase I figured six or seven names were enough. After all, ONE contrary example proves that god didn't stick to the 120 years threat. Gen 11:20-21 Rue 437 Gen 11:22-23 Serug 230 Gen 11:24-25 Nahor 148 Gen 11:32 Terah 205 Gen 23:1 Sarah 127 Gen 25:7 Abraham 175 Gen 25:17 Ishmael 137 Gen 35:28 Isaac 180 Gen 47:28 Jacob 147 Ex. 6:16 Levi 137 Ex. 6:18 Kohath 133 Ex. 6:20 Amram 137 Were all of these people born before the flood, funk? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 12-14-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Do you realize the implications? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: ummmm.... right. And the example I provided show lifespans of longer than that.
quote: Isn't this the same point as above?
quote: Why is this relevant? The point is that God sets an age limit of 120 and in the next breath violates it. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: aleph, dalet, mem == adam == man, men, as in humanity. Are you claiming differently? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: If you have a point please make it. I don't feel like twenty questions. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: So, you don't have a point to make then? If you do, just make it. Spell it out. Define, describe, whatever. Just make you point. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 12-16-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skandoggy:
[B]I was only trying to help you see this at a level that you feel comfortable dealing with.{/b][/quote] What does that mean?
quote: Bully? Telling you to make your case is being a bully? Cutting short your childish game is being a bully? Sorry. I don't buy it.
quote: The key is patience, sometimes a whole lot of it.
quote: No it doesn't. The various books were not written at once but over a period of hundreds of years, perhaps a thousand. Thus, they are sequencial, at least in part. The BIBLE itself didn't exist until it was compiled for Constantine. Prior to that there were thousands of seperate books, most of which didn't make it into Constantine's collection.
quote: Why does it matter if this was the first time or not?
quote: Hence, the Adamic sin questions. See how easy it is to just say what you mean?
quote: Genesis 6 writes: 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose. 3 And the LORD said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.' Logically, verse 3 is a reaction to verse 2, and verse 2 is not about what happened in the Garden. It is about what was happening between humans and the Sons of God.
quote: So verse 3 wasn't God talking?
quote: You have been quite unconvincing. Sorry.
quote: Why is it that the verse is not translated as such? Perhaps because that isn't what it says?
quote: Obviously. That is what verse 2 asserts, and that is what you appear to be trying to deny.
quote: You've made this part up. I don't know how else to respond. This is patently not what the Bible says on the issue.
quote: 1) It didn't effect even those that were alive at the time.2) Where are you seeing "after that"? Do you mean in Gen 6:4? Genesis writes: 4 There were men of great strength and size on the earth in those days; and after that, when the sons of God had connection with the daughters of men, they gave birth to children: these were the great men of old days, the men of great name. Seems like, after that humans and angels made babies who became the great men of old.
quote: Nothing in the passage suggests this interpretation.
quote: But lived longer than GOD allowed. This is the point. GOD specifically said no more than 120, but people went right on living to absurd ages.
quote: Nice of you to speak for God. I'm sure he appreciates it.
quote: Made clear? Made up, by you. Sure, you can't put the whole story on the same page but you can make it not conflict with itself.
quote: I am sincerely stunned by the mental gymnastics, no offense intended (honestly).
quote: Depends on how you wrote it. Was it written in the spirit of apology, as it seem? Or in the spirit of honest reflection?
quote: Do I have to have a god? Satan? That's funny. LOL. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Take a look at this page:
NCCG.ORG - NEFILIM - Understanding the True Origins of Mormonism - Chapter 25 - The Fallen Angels
I said angels, but the word actually means "fallen ones" which tracks with what I was told as a kid. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Lets think about this. The Bible is the word of God. Thus, we must accept what it teaches. You've got two choices here, as I see it. You can take the Bible dead literally. In which case you end up crashing into mountains of conflicting data, internal and external to the Bible. Option two is to accept that the Bible is a metaphor. The problem is that once you admit to metaphor, you may as well admit that the Bible is not reliable. Once it becomes open to interpretation by humans it becomes subject to error, or rather, it becomes incapable of preventing error. It becomes a guessing game, and who needs divine guidance that is subject to our whims?
quote: So God didn't mean what he said then? God had to ramp down slowly? God did not say he would shorten the human lifespan quickly and significantly. He said NO MORE THAN 120 YEARS for RIGHT NOW.
quote: Of course not, since to admit that the Bible is wrong here would through doubt on the rest of it too.
quote: Fine comb? God says 120 years. We find out that someone lived 120.5 years. To complain about that would be using a find toothed comb. You have a discrepancy of, at its extreme, 3.641666667 times the length of the longest lifespan God said he'd allow. ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
Isn't this the height of childish. Are you, by any chance, ten?
Why do you think these games are good for your cause? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 12-19-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I have also heard this preached.
quote: Early Judaism had no strong concept of a spiritual world. The religion was very much earthly. Punishment is always done on earth to the guilty and his children. So claiming that it means "spiritual death" is a big stretch. It is very far out of the context of the religion. The story is a power play between two gods that has been cleaned up to give the impression of monotheism. Have a look at the definition of the Hebrew word used for 'death.'
04191 muwth {mooth} a primitive root; TWOT - 1169; v AV - die 424, dead 130, slay 100, death 83, surely 50, kill 31,dead man 3, dead body 2, in no wise 2, misc 10; 835 1) to die, kill, have one executed1a) (Qal) 1a1) to die 1a2) to die (as penalty), be put to death 1a3) to die, perish (of a nation) 1a4) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct) 1b) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch 1c) (Hiphil) to kill, put to death 1d) (Hophal) 1d1) to be killed, be put to death 1d1a) to die prematurely Do you see any spiritual aspects? ------------------
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John Inactive Member |
quote: As you point out, there is evidence that two traditions were combined. What I was refering to was the interplay between the Hebrew God and the Serpent in the Garden. Very similar stories occur in myths from the area. ------------------
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