In defense of nihilism

No problems. I suffer from impatience too. But I've all eternity so shouldn't really be.Its not that the writings bad but there will be difficulty forming this wrathful/graceful character in such a way as to make sense.If you ever do, it means you know God

Are you suggesting I am working out my own salvation by writing a parodic and mocking fable of Christianity?

The Lord wants you very badly. He also has a very good sense of humor.Look what he did to Saul/Paul.It would be great if you did turn. You would make a great evangeliser. And no one would be more surprised than youOnce you'd came down to earth again, you'd have a great laugh with him about it.

Communist China has allowed some free enterprise in that nation, relative to how the bourgeoisie cooperates with the whims of the government rulers. Those who don't, including practicing Christians and even their defense lawyers end up in oppressive govt prison sweatshops on rigorous production lines or worse.A national government of likeminded nihilists, if they were oppressive, would be equally inclined to disregard ethics of justice or international law, as in China to impose their nihilistic desires upon the bourgeoisie.What in nihilism inhibits oppression upon others by nihilists in power and authority?

---

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

That's pretty much a tautology. If the nihilists are oppressive, then they would be oppressive. Sure; however, the same goes for Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc.A national government of likeminded Christians, if they were oppressive, would be equally inclined to disregard ethics of justice or international law.

The difference is that the nihilists would be violating no ethics code as they have none, so would be more inclined to do anything pleasing to them. Christians, for an example, who do have a written ethics code would be violating their New Testament Biblical ethics code by being oppressive. Our founders and early governments were most all Christians who established the land of the free and the blessed. Why? Because they went by their code book, the Bible. Any Christians who were oppressive would be in violation of their own ethics book. This was the case in the dark ages of the inquisitions by the popes and bishops of Vatican City. These disregarded their own ethics code as per the New Testamnet. On the other hand, nihilists would have violated nothing. Without ethics and justice codes power becomes very dangerous to society.

---

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

That simply isn't true. You keep equating no absolute code with no personal code. Just because it is personal does not make it less important to that person, or able to flap around depending on which way the wind is blowing.There is also the matter of taste... which to me underlies most ethics anyway, but one can find some things allowed or virtuous within an ethic but still found undesirable by a person.I have a pretty set personal ethical system and certainly would NOT support oppression, both for ethical and aesthetic reasons. I find your off hand claim that people like me would is pretty offensive. But the "written code" (as if nihilists couldn't have written down their own codes) has not prevented Xians from violating them and being oppressive! From the moment Xians reached power they were a malevolent oppressive force.You may claim that the first in power were not true Xians but then that still does not help your position one bit. Whatever they were they certainly were not nihilists. They were theists and held the same written code you did.The difference is that they interpreted the codes differently. Indeed that's what all people with absolute codes do when they desire to achieve and end using a means that their code does not allow... reinterpret. Lying is against your written code, and yet here you appear to be doing just that. Thanks for providing such a quick and easy example.Still waiting for any fundie to point out where the Bible suggests democracy as a desirable form of govt, with freedom of speech and religion. See I knew you'd say that, and not even realize how ridiculous your charge is. You give an example of theists violating there own code and use that to criticize nihilists? How can that be a criticism of another group which does not use a written code when it inherently show how little power a written code has over its followers? How can society suffer any worse under nihilists than it did under Xians violating their own codes at will during the dark ages? Or how about during the missionizing of the Americas and Orient?All you have shown is that anyone and everyone is capable of cruelty, and if they want to be oppressive, will be oppressive regardless of written law. It is the tautology funkaloyd expressed quite appropriately.I do agree there should be some strong legal codes in writing for the people to know and use to protect themselves against the machinations of others. Unfortunately they will still only be as strong as those willing to abide by those laws, and defend the laws when they are broken.

---

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

By your reasoning, wouldn't the best belief system be the one which best prevents its followers from oppressing others? Of all systems available, Christianity clearly wouldn't be the winner there. Maybe we should create a new religion, in which sin is punished by eternal torture for the sinner and his or her entire immediate family. I bet we could manage to leave less room for interpretation than the Bible does, too.

quote:

---

Language is a human invention, and truth is a concept that we needed to invent as part of language, in order to be able to express agreement and disagreement.

​

Philosophers and theologians have mystified truth. They have made it out to be something which stands alone independent of language. But this only leads to an unnecessary mysticism.

---

You see truth in a superficial way, skimming the surface of the ship. I see what you mean with truth in relation to dissagreements and agreements within language and human interactions, but the existance of definitive truth seems to elude you. What do we strive for in debating? We know that someone has to be right, so our opinions and theories are presented, mostly regurgitated philosophy or science, and we all have a good time in this search for understanding and truth together, wouldn't you agree?If the existance of absolute truth was an idea, that was actually a man made invention to interact better with our peers, then we have no purpose in our search, and we remove importance yet again in our lives for a simple understanding of ourselves and of God, for language and opinion.

---

these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

quote:

---

The difference is that the nihilists would be violating no ethics code as they have none, so would be more inclined to do anything pleasing to them. Christians, for an example, who do have a written ethics code would be violating their New Testament Biblical ethics code by being oppressive.

---

I understand your statement, but I also believe that nilhilists are just like Christians, because we are all human, nihilists can be just as good.With your second paragraph, be ready for some people to argue that religion ruined the world... Idiots.

---

these walls are paper thin
and everyone hears every little sound.

why base it on punishment? in the buddhist system when you {live right} you are rewarded with leaving the cycle of life and becoming one with it. fail and you retake the test.

---

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

​

RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Buzsaw seems more like the fire & brimstone type (excuse me if I'm wrong, Buz). Not that it was a serious suggestion.

My understanding is that nihilists have no code. Each situation is relative, subject to no code of ethics. At least the Christian has an objective written code to be judged against. The reformation came about to correct the violation of that written code by the popes and bishops of Vatican City. The world became a better place because of the written code the protestants used to end the Dark Ages. You missed my point. You may be a good nihilist. Chances are that in your ancestory there were some ethical codes ingrained into your family. A few generations of nihilism could more easily change that than if you had a set of moral codes for your children and grandchildren to follow. Good Christians are those who have a respectful fear of a higher power. This is an incentive to ethics which have proven to be beneficial to society.Would you agree that Eastern religions such as Buddhism tend towards nihilism than North America? What about North American Christians who have held fairly well to their written code? The US is where most immagrants from the more nihilistic societies have wanted to come. Look at the Asians and Communist refugees who've longed for the land of the free and prosperous. Look at the Mexican Catholics from where they have to bar the gates and windows, who've undermined the Ten Commandments and the Godden Rule of Jesus, for the most part. They're also flocking here. They've become somewhat nihilistic by throwing off the Biblical codes which their own religious system has replaced with religious dogmas, chants and rituals from the popes and bishops. Few of them now a lot about the Bible, having received little study of it in the churches. I'm not claiming that atol. The first three centuries of Christians held close to the Biblical moral codes. They were the persecuted ones by the Roman Empire. Their descendents who resisted the popes and bishops were the persecuted ones of the inquisitions. These were the ones holding to the Golden Rule, et al, being persecuted by the more nihilistic popes and bishops who made up their own ethics from whole cloth. That's right. They nihilized the code, replacing the written word with their own nihilistic selfish rituals, indulgences, deviances and oppressions for their own enrichment and power.Buz:

quote:

---

Our founders and early governments were most all Christians who established the land of the free and the blessed. Why? Because they went by their code book, the Bible.

---

Holmes:

quote:

---

Lying is against your written code, and yet here you appear to be doing just that. Thanks for providing such a quick and easy example.

---

HOLMES, YOU KNOW VERY WELL THAT i'M NOT LYING. YOU CALL ME A LIAR ONCE MORE AND YOU GET NO MORE RESPONSES FROM ME!! IF YOU THINK I'M MISTAKEN, SAY SO, BUT STOP CALLING ME A LIAR!! The Bible advocates freedom of religion and treating others as self, et al. The Biblical ethics as per the Golden Rule of Jesus and general adherance to the Ten Commandments by these men were what produced history's most blessed nation. The Christians nihilized their own rules with total disregard to some and radical interpretations of others to suit their own nihilistic whims and ambitions. . Don't put Biblical Christians in the same lot with Vaticanism of the Dark Ages. I have to agree. Society suffers equally from the bad nihilist as the bad Christina, but you need to understand my point that it was and is the good folks who followed/follow the moral code of the Bible who bless society with freedom, the work ethic, free enterprise and prosperity. No, I've shown that those who subject themselves to be accountable to a higher power and the Biblical moral code, proven to be good for society, benefit society by doing so. But if oppressive folks rule who's who have no code, judging each person and situation relative to each situation as they see fit for their own personal whims and desires, society suffers. Many oppresed people from many nations ruled by these kinds of tyrants long for the land of the free where the majority are still influenced by Biblical precepts. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message is a reply to:
Message 141 by buzsaw, posted 12-02-2005 11:04 PM

---

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

Each to his own. The Biblical god, Jehovah, punishes evil and when he does it's very effective for change and erradication of evil when reformation fails. Were it not so, the world would've perished milleniums ago like evidently what what was about to happen the first time before the flood.

---

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buzsaw

buzsaw writes:

quote:

---

My understanding is that nihilists have no code.

---

Then you don't know what nihilism is. Please go back and read my post about what nihilism is.

---

Rrhain

---

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.