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Author Topic:   Moving towards an ID mechanism.
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 104 of 141 (265407)
12-04-2005 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
12-03-2005 7:17 PM


Re: it from bit
I'm reading this thread and so far have gotten to your post, about halfway through the thread. From what little I've read of Faynman who is not a layperson, by any means, and what some knowledgeable folks here have said, there is much which remains mysterious, if you will, about QM and in one of Feynman's papers he simply said something to the effect that certain aspects of QM didn't make sense.
Yes, Feynman did spend a good deal of time pointing out the mysteriousness of QM... to layman and non-specialist audiences. But don't for a second think that Feynman was confused. You have to appreciate the difference between the workings of QM and the interpretation of QM. The Copenhagen Interpretation is precisely that... an interpretation. It does not in any way affect the workings of QM. From every experiment carried out over the past 100 years, those workings are fixed in stone.
Most interpretations, to some extent, try to explain QM in terms of classical concepts. This is always a lost cause because QM contains concepts that have no simple classical analogues. But some interpretations lead to new ways of performing the calculations. One of Feynman's greatest achievements was the path-integral or sum-over-histories approach to QM, which is mathematically equivalent to Schrodinger wave mechanics or Heisenberg matrix mechanics, but has a very different interpretation.
What I have been trying to say is this: it doesn't matter what interpretation is used, no extra mechanisms are discovered. The underlying mathematics fixed long ago the possibilities of QM.
That is not to say that there is nothing new to be discovered! But it is not in the "mysteries" of QM, but in the search for the TOE which means the ensemble of "the problem of time", "quantum gravity", "grand unification", "quantum mechanics", "emergence", etc.
If you think QM is mysterious, just try putting your mind around that lot. That was my job...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 12-03-2005 7:17 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 105 of 141 (265419)
12-04-2005 9:59 AM


Apologies
I thought that despite my reluctance to engage Randman in further discussion, I should clear up a few points for anyone reading this thread (is anyone actually reading this thread?)
Randman writes:
You specifically claimed no outside input was possible, period, which as I pointed out would mean the universe could not be created because at the point of creation, there would be input.
Randman writes:
your idea of determinism rules the universe, then there is no way God raises up Jesus from the dead or involves Himself in any way with answering prayers, is there?
Hmmm... well, if I gave that impression, that was not my intention. Let's see... what did I write?
Cavediver writes:
My outlandish view would be that there are external divine influences DESPITE the universe being deterministic...
Cavediver writes:
I would probably place any divine intervention in the realm of "global changes to reality" (as I was discussing with Brad). This keeps God's activities out of science and back into Goddidit and faith, which is where I personally believe all such musings belong.
I think that's enough to falsify Randman's view of my beliefs.
My belief: God can and does interact with the universe but it is not through any observable mechanism. Likewise with ID. God is not so impotent that he cannot create a universe with humans as the final product without tinkering on a step-by-step basis.
I find ID the greatest insult to God's creative abilities. I would be a YEC long long before I would ever consider ID.
And finally, I personally believe that no matter how deep our physical theories delve, we will never uncover a spiritual layer.

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by RAZD, posted 12-04-2005 12:17 PM cavediver has not replied
 Message 107 by randman, posted 12-04-2005 3:47 PM cavediver has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3671 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 129 of 141 (266067)
12-06-2005 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by randman
12-06-2005 11:12 AM


Re: information
cavediver claims that the information set of the future in one sense is already here since it is within space-time, but Wheeler suggests...
But Wheeler nothing. Wheeler does not believe any different to me in this respect. Perhaps you can point out anywhere that Wheeler states that information is added to the universe by nature of observation? Or by anything else, for that matter...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by randman, posted 12-06-2005 11:12 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by randman, posted 12-06-2005 1:26 PM cavediver has not replied

  
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