Works, Faith, & Salvation (for Iano)

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The idea is really pretty simple, and it's very consistent both in Scripture as well as being what everyone in the church believed for the first few centuries the church existed. Christ died to deliver us from sin. We receive that deliverance by faith apart from works. That deliverance comes in the form of mercy, the forgiveness of past sins, and grace, the power to overcome sin. If we are diligent to add to our faith the virtues described in 2 Pet 1, then we shall also be saved in the future, at the judgment, because we will have patiently continued to do good (Rom 2:7), and we shall receive eternal life and an entrance into the everlasting kingdom of Y'shua the King. For it is only those who endure to the end who shall be saved, whether or not they have been saved by faith.

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Nicely said! ABE: Definite POTMThis message has been edited by purpledawn, 12-06-2005 06:37 AM

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

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God is very merciful. To everyone, he says, "If the wicked will turn from all the sins that he has committed and keep all my statutes and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live...All his transgressions...shall not be mentioned" (Ezk 18:21,22), but the opposite is true as well: "When the righteous turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity...all his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned...in his sin that he has sinned he will die" (Ezk 18:24).

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Why do you think some believers have trouble understanding or accepting the idea of repentance?It was and is a very important part of Judaism.

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

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Do you want to make the case for your doctrine

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Truthlover has made his case.You, unfortuantely, have not made your case or clearly shown his case to be wrong, insufficient, or even mildly incorrect.You've said he is wrong, but you have not explained how the text says something different than what Truthlover has said that it says.You have not shown us how his explanation uses the verses out of context.You haven't provided any coherent alternative to discuss.

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

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What is the basis for discussion.

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The basis for discussion is the OP. Address the statements made by Truthlover.If you feel they are not supported by his references, then show how they are not supported. Don't just say they aren't supported.If you stay on topic, you can tackle it anyway you want.This message has been edited by purpledawn, 12-09-2005 06:45 AM

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

Very interesting newsletter.The excerpts from Strom's is what I envision a Christian Walk to be.I don't buy into the "cannot NOT sin" scenerio.Thank you for sharing.

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

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We have eternal life now, because we have the Son. At the judgment, however, the reward of eternal life (or immortality, as Paul calls it in Rom 2:7) is given to us.

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I wonder if you could clarify "life" for me as used by John in your explanation?I understand eternal life when used as immortality, but am confused since you have shown that John speaks in present tense.Is John talking about immortality or is he refering to the continued existence of a new way of living so to speak?Thanks

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

Thank you TruthloverBoth posts helped to give me a visual handle on John's usage in the present.You explained the mystical very well.Thanks again, Teach.

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There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton