Evolution for Dummies and Christians

Carico,If you don't trust science, then please be consistent and don't trust your doctor when he prescribes medical treatment for life-threatening illnesses. Better to suffer or even die than to trust science, right? And maybe you could write to your power company and ask them to cut you off, because electricity is something scientists came up with, and you can't really trust them, can you? Oh, and chuck out your computer, it's working relies on quantum mechanics, which is science pur sang, not to be trusted.Seriously, do you realise how much the results of science permeate your every day life? Televisions, cell phones, cars, airplanes, refrigerators, computers, solar powered devices, satelite dishes, clothing, the weather forecast, food safety. You name it, science had something to do with it. Your life is chock-full of the results of science. Without science, your comfy existence would be a nightmare, or you might even have died already. If you don't want to be better informed about science than you are, then the least you could do is show some gratitude.This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 07-Dec-2005 11:55 AM

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

Carico,How can evolutionists defend themselves if they don't know what they are accused of? You keep talking about this premise of evolution, and that it is a lie.You were asked in this thread to tell us what you think this premise is. You have yet to do so, yet you are all over the board, repeating the same arguments over and over.So, here's the question again: Please answer this question now. If you do, some meaningful discussion might develop. If you don't, you risk being ignored, especially if you keep ignoring other people's arguments yourself.

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

Apparently it's you who is contradicting herself. First you tell us that the "premise of evolution" is a lie, then you say that you are trying to pin down "our premise", implying you don't know what it is exactly. If you don't know what the premise is, you cannot say that it is a lie. If by 'ape' you mean modern apes - the apes that live now: chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans - then it is not true that evolutionists believe that.Evolutionists think that modern man and modern apes have a common ancestor. That's faulty logic. Even if it were true, then you would still be wrong in calling it a premise of evolution. It would be a conclusion of evolution.Consider the absurdity of it being a premise: how can something that happened only in the last few million years be a premise for the truth of a process that's been going on for billions of years prior to it?I'll tell you the real premises of the theory of evolution:

• random mutations cause living creatures to reproduce imperfectly
• natural selection causes only the best adapted creatures to live long enough to reproduce

The conclusion from these premises is that populations change over time.Like you have said: the truth is simple.This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 02:33 PM

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

Are you answering Yaro or me?This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 02:08 PM

The ancestor is almost human, and almost modern-ape. The traits a species develops as it evolves, are not the traits of another existing species it mates with. That's not how traits are acquired.Instead, random mutations produce individuals that are slightly different from their siblings. Some differences lead to advantages of the individual over others. There are limited resources and not all individuals survive until they can reproduce. Only the better adapted individuals get to reproduce, thus passing on their advantageous traits. This is called natural selection.In this manner, over a long period of time, the population of a species changes.I'll bow out now, and let Yaro talk to you a bit. We can continue this later.This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 02:32 PMThis message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 02:49 PM

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

Carico,I am telling you officially: If you come back with that argument again, after reading this, then everybody will know for certain that you don't listen.Now, could you just shut up for a while, and take you fingers out of your ears? Please, listen to Yaro, answering only yes or no. No buts, no insinuations, no jumping to conclusions, just yes or no.Please?{added by edit: sorry if this is a bit out of line, the conversation has moved on since I started writing this message.}This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Dec-2005 03:13 PM

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

Carico spoke of her husband, hence she is a woman, unless she is a Christian fundamentalist married homosexual, which is rather unlikely.So, let's all use the proper personal pronouns when mentioning her.

Evolution is a fact and a theory.The fact of evolution is that life has evolved, we have all sorts of evidence for it.The theory of evolution is the scientific explanation of the mechanism behind the fact.

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"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins

And I knew that you are. Actually, my comment was directed more at Carico, I should have made that clearer. Sorry about that.

No problem.