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Author | Topic: God says this, and God says that | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Huh? Is my dismissal of giant pink invisible unicorns unreasonable because I hanven't had any direct sensory experience of them? If I HAD had direct sensory experience of said unicorns and STILL dismissed them, then THAT would be unreasonable.
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gene90:
[B] quote: quote: Bull. (Strawman) Besides, moral values prescribed by religions change with the wind. Slavery used to be morally OK. Owning women as chattel used to be morally OK. Burning people at the stake used to be morally OK. Having multiple wives used to be morally OK. Killing homosexuals used to be morally OK. Some of these things are still considered morally OK in certain parts of the world. It all depends upon what religion one follows. Religiously-based morality seems much more dangerous to me than humanistically-based morality because of this ability to dictate to large groups of people who will accept a moral code in it's entirety. Think "crusades." [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-16-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: You are going to stack my 40 carat diamond up against your God and conclude that my diamond is too extreme? Your god must be very small. The fact is, gene, that it doesn't matter what you put in place of the diamond. You could use a stick of gum. Apparently you feel you need to avoid the issue. Why is that?
quote: Extreme? 40 carat diamonds actually exist. The world record is 186 carats. The fact that these things are testable is irrelevant. It is the claims made about them that is the key element. I chose a physical object to bring the example into the realm of experience.
quote: This is profoundly irrelevant. As I pointed out above, you can use anything in the example and it works. Use a gumball or a comic book, and the analogy works.
quote: So, that God cannot be detected is somehow positive evidence for God? You haven't stated this outright but I am seeing hints of this concept.
quote: So you held God in your hand, then walked up to the teller and deposited Him in heaven? Really, this is the worst you've presented. As I reformulated it, though, it is quite adequate but you haven't addressed that.
quote: By Jove!!!! You are claiming this as positive evidence.
quote: I went out of my way to make it track with the claims for the existence of God. That is why it is rather strange. Glad you have finally admitted it.
quote: Of course not, but nor is it evidence FOR. My beaf is that it is ridiculous to build arguments or beliefs based upon something for which there is no evidence. IGNORING the thing for which there is no evidence is not the same as proving it wrong or asserting the it doesn't exist. You seem to have a real mental block here.
quote: But you can go around pointing out that it is unreasonable to argue with something untestable as your premise. This is my point.
quote: What? Radio waves and black holes can't be tested? And no evidence, prior to their actually being discovered, lead to the conclusions that they exist? ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Gene, you misrepresented what John wrote about in this article. His point is that the US Congress denounced the results of a scientific study. They had no business doing that just because the results of that study touched a nerve. Do you agree that this IS an inappropriate and bizzare thing for Congress to do, and do you agree that scientists should be able to study what they want to (within ethical limits) and that scientists should be free of censure by our government just because their results are unpopular?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Why is that relevant, funk?
quote: So, in short, there is no evidence for God. Again, why believe?
quote: Why did David Koresh claim to be Jesus? Why did Charles Manson believe he needed to start a race war? Why does the dalai lama believe he is the reincarnation of his predecessor? Belief and assertion are not indicators of truth.
quote: You and gene are in a much better position to answer that than I.
quote: This doesn't follow. There does not have to be a reason. I have a teenager in the house who makes stuff up for no good reason. He doesn't even know why he does it. There is verifiable mental disorders that could account for it. And most people simply believe what they are told as kids. But lets not forget the age-old staples-- power and money. Religion has an enormous amount of both. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
[B] quote: quote: I don't believe you. Where is the JAMA paper that undoubtedly would have been front page news in every paper and news program in the world? Surely such an amazing thing would have been shouted from the rooftops, right? Could it be that the hip wasn't broken at all?
quote: Again, I don't believe you. Whaere are the doctor's records? What illness did they have? (food poisoning can act like that) How many people were ill for how long, and did they all REALLY get well at the same time, and were they all REALLY in "perfect" health? Who evaluated their healt to determine if it was "perfect? How many times have people prayed and people's health haven't improved that quickly, or at all?
quote: Um, maybe the gague was faulty. Maybe your dad or someone else got it filled and didn't tell anybody.
quote: Sorry, but none of these examples are convincing. They are all just personal anecdotes and are riddled with all kinds of bias. You wanted to believe God did these things so you found reasons to believe and ignored all the other possibilities.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Thank you, schraf. At least gene has been man enough to drop the subject, without admitting the error. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I have to agree. Gene, you do have a tendency to reserve the right to criticize for yourself but object to others doing the same thing when they disagree with you. You did exactly that with Zhimbo in the "state-sponsored terrorism" thread. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-16-2002]
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: Holy cow, are you actually saying this? Christians most certainly have a political mandate, pushed by many of their churces. The Republican party wouldn't kowtow to their issues so readily otherwise.
quote: You have to hate most other religions besides Protestant Christianity, too, to be in the KKK. The people who join the KKK often say they are doing so because they want to promote the white race.
quote: ...or go to temple (be it Jewish, Hindu, etc.) or a mosque, or you believe in god on your own without organized religion, or whatever.
quote: ...with you, perhaps, but I can see haw some comparisons could be made. I mean, the KKK does claim to be Christian, and many Christian churches have advocated racism, including your own denomination.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3843 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: One of the problems with being LDS is that I take a lot of heat for it. Turns out that quite a few participants seem to have an axe to grind with "Mormons" and Schrafinator seems to be one of them. I wonder if I should have just allowed her to make offensive comments about my church and never admit to being a "Mormon"? Probably. Schrafinator: if you reread my post you will see that I said that I personally do not spend time trying to convert anyone of different religions. When I serve my mission that will change, though whether I spend whether my time with non-Christians will depend on where in the world I am assigned. And then I will be attempting to teach by the Holy Spirit, which is impossible to do through the Internet. I hope that after a two year absence this board will (1) still be here and (2) participation will still be worthwhile.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3843 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: No I certainly do not. If the results of a scientific survey implied that we should institute forced sterilization of people with poor genes, would it be inappropriate for Congress to dismiss those results? You bet it would! Define what is and is not 'ethical' while you're at it. You speak as if everyone could agree on what is ethical.
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nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I am agnostic and this is the definition I most ascribe to:
quote: It's not that I think Christianity is less valid than any other religion, but all religions are invalid. We don't know. That's the end of it. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 12-16-2002]
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3843 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Actually John, I was willing to let it go as it distracted from the point at hand. However, if you and Allison prefer to continue talking about it, I am perfectly willing to bring the subject back up. Look, John is mad because Congress ignored a suggestion to legalize pedophilia. He wrote about it. Therefore he is encouraging pedophilia. The title of the article is, "Emancipation proclamation for pedophiles".
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3843 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: How do you know that all religions are invalid? This is making more assumptions than merely claiming that Christianity is invalid.
quote: That's exactly my point. By definition, you don't know. So how do you know that any religion is invalid? You defeat your own argument.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Have you no shame? Every point you made has been addressed, yet you repeat the same garbage yet again. 1) There was no suggestion to legalize pedophilia. You can't get even this much straight. 2) There was a legitimate study indicating that the effects are not as traumatic as most imagine. Congress, based on nothing but knee-jerk emotion and public opinion posturing, condemned a LEGITIMATE STUDY. Hello, gene, this is censorship of information!!!!!! 3) Wow. I wrote about it. Well damn me to hell. 4) I wrote to discourage censorship not to encourage pedophilia. That you can't see the difference is mind-bending. 5) The title of my article is nearly verbatum what the study was labelled by those who opposed it when it first came out a few years ago. The title is a reference to the study. But you knew this, because I have told you. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com [This message has been edited by John, 12-16-2002]
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