|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,461 Year: 3,718/9,624 Month: 589/974 Week: 202/276 Day: 42/34 Hour: 5/2 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Church spreading aids | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
I condemn the first post in this thread for its religious intolerance and bigotry.
As I've said, the quality of this site is going downhill. Even the moderators can't seem to control themselves sometimes. [This message has been edited by gene90, 11-28-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]I'm not thrilled with the wording of the first post, but the point is good.[/QUOTE][/B]
I'm not thrilled with RCC's view on contraception but it seems like teaching them about promiscuity is a good call. I really don't believe that the missionaries are saying "Have all the sex you want unprotected", but more likely, "Keep your pants on!" The latter works even better than condems. Especially if the people are having lots of sexual encounters anyway . Thus the church is not spreading AIDS. [This message has been edited by gene90, 11-28-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Supplies don't get through Africa well becaue of political instability and lack of infrastructure. Proving them with the insanely expensive cocktails necessary to fight HIV would be impossible. And partial doses are worse than no doses, it would encourage drug resistance. Only a one-time-use vaccine will save Africa
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
But it can be argued that promiscuity is the ultimate cause for the AIDS pandemic. *IF* they kept their pants on more and used condoms more the disease would be placed in check. Also, if women were more equal with men and actually had say of whether or not a condom was used, it wouldn't be such a problem (in Africa or the US). Of course, trying to convince them that condoms are of the Devil is not good--I flatly disagree with that policy.
But I think what we are going up against is culture and and economics. Economics because in the US and in Africa, poor women are the most rapidly growing infected group. Primarily though, culture, because if monogamy were more prevalent and prostitution less prevalent and condoms more acceptable the problem wouldn't be so great. (There are some unspeakable African cultural practices that spread AIDS to infants, there was a blurb in Science a while back).
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
It can also be argued that a viral agent is the ultimate cause for the AIDS pandemic.
You know what I meant. Absolutely. That is why the RCC's position is so infuriating. They must radically change the culture before their policy will have any effect, but during the time it takes to do that 100 million people die and a great many more suffer the repercussions. I agree with that. It's foolish that outside groups trying to curb the pandemic are working against each other.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: Well now, you've got to use common sense here. It's one thing to restrict yourself to one partner. It's another to frequent prostitutes. Also they shouldn't refuse to use condoms. I think that the AIDS epidemic is at least partially (maybe mostly) the fault of economics (prostitution) and culture (lack of monogamy). This is very simple to understand but it isn't what people want to hear. In a typical instance, when the New York gay community was first asked to be less promiscuous, the speakers were villified as "'anti-gay f*g***s', homophobes, fearmongers, and fools" (Laurie Garrett, The Coming Plague, p 292) Although it is possible to be infected with HIV without engaging in improper behavior (ex: bad transfusions, needle pricks) the fact is that most cases are contracted through immoral acts and behavioral shortcomings. That is why there is an AIDS stigma. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-01-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Schraf, when you feel like making a substantive reply, by all means, do so.
While I'm waiting, perhaps I should dress in solid black, wait till dark, and stand on the Interstate and see what happens. Most people get diseases because it is part of their environment. The problem with virtually all cases of this disease is that they get AIDS because they can't keep their pants on or get over their recreational chemicals. It's rather difficult to excuse that behavior. Almost as if they are deliberately out looking for it. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-02-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: That's right.
quote: I'm not suggesting they refuse sex with their husbands. I'm suggesting that their husbands should have sex only with their wives, and vice versa.
quote: That's because, until as of late, you haven't been on the opposite end. Since I actively began opposing you and others that I had not before, the tone of your posts have changed. They are more condescending, more self-righteous, and arrogant. Apparently believing in God is a mark of intellectual inferiority, and I have been branded. Plus I see that the "respect" I used to see for my posts amongst the old-timers was only skin deep. It never was about the quality of my arguments, only whether or not I agree with you. I see this when we talk about God, politics, and anything which we disagree on. And when we talk about evolution even the other evolutionists have ceased to expound upon my ideas. Of course, this loss of respect works both ways.
quote: You're entitled to your opinion.
quote: Well that's unfortunate. The truth is hard sometimes. I'm only the messenger of common sense: that if you control yourself, you're a lot better off. I don't see anything uncompassionate about that, and I don't think I'm callous for but none of the dissenting opinions on my posts surprise me anymore. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-10-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
So they're bitter, and they hate morals.
I used to disbelieve the Fundie stereotype of atheists, but it seems to be getting more and more accurate all the time.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: How do you know God approved of those cultural conditions?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
What's wrong with polygamy? My view of it is this: when God allows it is fine, when God doesn't allow it nothing is wrong with it, except that it is against God's will. The Book of Mormon goes into this lightly, and warns against it except when proscribed by God. So far as I am aware, the only part of the Bible that suggests polygamy be avoided is 1 Timothy 3:2, the requirements of the bishop.
And what do you, as an atheist, care about polygamy? Do you not feel that banning it, when it is proscribed by religion, is more religious intolerance? [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-12-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
I disagree with that practice any time minors are involved. And not that I like polygamous behavior, I just think that people should be allowed to do what they feel they should.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: This is the unbending part I guess. AIDS is avoidable. If they won't avoid it, there's nothing I or anybody else here can do.
quote: Then it's his fault and she'll get the disease. And by the way, I do suspect that most of Africa's problem stems from male misbehavior.
quote: Yes. I've always been accused of being snobby and condescending. This is nothing new, only the group accusing me of being snobby and condescending is different. And by the way, I think it is because I am rather arrogant sometimes.
quote: They have changed towards you and your ilk because of the criticism I suddenly seem to be getting all the time, especially regarding my choice of religion.
quote: There may be some truth to that claim. I'm always outnumbered now and I have never been able to hold up a decent debate when outnumbered. I've lost debates to YECs that way in other forums, not because I couldn't outdo their arguments but because I was put into a rush to keep up and got very sloppy. Plus I can't debate at all once I lose my cool. Also, I seem to be up against more experienced and more skillful opposition than the average, newcomer YEC that stumbles in here. So it's not that my debate style is necessarily getting worse it could just mean that (1) I'm under more pressure (2) the opposition is stronger and (3) you're paying attention to my arguments for the first time.
quote: I'm not going to say that they deserve anything. Disease doesn't work like that. It has a random aspect to it. A lot of people are suffering who did nothing wrong to contract the disease. And then you have the children orphaned by the disease. I am however saying that this epidemic could be brought under control if people were more monogamous and, as you suggested, better educated. Behavior still plays a huge part in this epidemic. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-17-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
Don't get your hopes up. The fact is that quite a few of my fellow evolutionists have an axe to grind with Christianity. We Christians are "evil", "stupid", and "dishonest". And we were recently (on this board) compared to the KKK.
Then there is resistance to the obvious. Time and again in this very thread I have pointed out that Africa's problem with AIDS is behavioral. If there were a behavioral change AIDS would not be infecting >20% of the population in some areas. When I do post common sense I get replies like this:
quote: Life's complicated isn't it? I guess maybe I shouldn't point out to somebody that if they don't want lung cancer they shouldn't smoke twelve packs a day and that if they don't want to get hit by a speeding vehicle they shouldn't wander out into busy highways. Could it be that I'm turning uncaring and arrogant? Maybe. I guess I could be caring and give kids reflective stickers so that when they play in the street at night cars will see them and maybe slam on the brakes. Or maybe I could just teach them not to play in the road...oh wait that's the "uncaring" and "heartless" and "puritanical" thing to do...after all isn't it their right to play in a busy highway? And incidentally, this board, in many threads, is not "Creationism vs Evolution" it is "Atheism vs Christianity". As an old-timer I have had the poor fortune of watching this site degenerate into what it is. Note the reference in the first message of this thread to "bead jinglers". Sounds a little like a racial slur doesn't it? [This message has been edited by gene90, 01-02-2003]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3845 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: This isn't about civility this about the law forcing me to pay for somebody elses' abortion in some Pacific Rim country. Now why should I have to pay for it when I don't even believe abortion is necessarily morally acceptable? I don't see anything "civilized" about the boot of government carrying out a travesty with my tax dollars and I'm glad to see the current administration is doing something about it.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024