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Author | Topic: evolutionary chain | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Christian Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 157 Joined: |
OH yeah, I was slipping off topic again. Sorry.
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Christian Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 157 Joined: |
Ok, if you can show me a gradual progression from a padded foot to a hoved foot, that will be good, since the horse is a pretty good runner on the feet he has, it's unlikely that this would just be a loss of something. Apparently that's what you've given me so I will have to research horse evolution and see how much validity there is. I'll let you know what I come up with.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
K. Sounds like a plan.
we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Christian Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 157 Joined: |
Actually that horse chart you gave me doesn't give a description of the foot at each stage. I would really like to see that. Do you think you could find something like that for me?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
something like this?
quote: (quick google search) razd probably gave you more steps than that, but that's the idea. three equal metatarsels, to one dominant metatarsel and small toes on the side, to one fused metatarsel and vestigal toes, to the single toe and metatarsel of a modern horse. This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 12-14-2005 05:55 PM
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6353 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
Are those drawings by Haeckel?
I couldn't resist I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i found a photographic one, but it was less clear.
if you click the link there there's another graphic showing ontogeny recapitulating phylogeny.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Can you produce the evidence for the dating of these hoofs/limbs/appendages?
Can you show exactly where they were found? Are the proportions correct or artificially made to appear the same size? These are the sorts of questions a site such as the one you linked should be discussing instead of just spinning the usual evolutionist yarn, the usual evolutionist fairy tale. This message has been edited by Faith, 12-14-2005 07:44 PM
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
Can you produce the evidence for the dating of these hoofs/limbs/appendages? Why? They are found in lower layers as you go from right to left. Why do the precise dates matter? Any dating should be taken to the dating threads. It seems you (among others) don't accept dates but have no interest in attempting to answer the points made in the "correlations" thread in dating. Why is that?
Can you show exactly where they were found? Why?
Are the proportions correct or artificially made to appear the same size? I am sure they are not at the same scale. This is to show the transformation of form not size. Why does that matter? These fossils exist. That is not a fairy tale. These fossils occur in the order given. That is not a fairy tale. These fossils are one of many evolutionary chains asked for. That is not a fairy tale. Now you need to get into the details. Since you take things on faith alone with no reference to the actual data why do you care the tiniest bit about this material. It is of ZERO concern to you. It would only be of concern to those who, unlike you, want to interfer with the education of students based on the available facts; those who, unike you, want to allow unsupported statements of anyones belief into the classroom; those who, unlike you, have faith that is so weak it they desparately need the support of the much miligned science. Since you are not in those groups why did you bother to post in a thread that is concerned with objective facts? You are the one who uses a system of understanding that is willing to accept non-objective beliefs -- that is, what many understand to be fairy tales. This message has been edited by NosyNed, 12-14-2005 08:06 PM
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Nighttrain Member (Idle past 3993 days) Posts: 1512 From: brisbane,australia Joined: |
Those middle toes look suspiciously like male thingies. Well---------some male thingies.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Can you produce the evidence for the dating of these hoofs/limbs/appendages? Can you show exactly where they were found? feel free to look up the species named in something that's not a webpage.
Are the proportions correct or artificially made to appear the same size? they are made to appear the same size, but it's irrelevent to the morphology. they actually grow, from left to right, pretty consistently.
These are the sorts of questions a site such as the one you linked should be discussing instead of just spinning the usual evolutionist yarn, the usual evolutionist fairy tale. not everything is a science text, and not all science texts are technical journals. want more information? look it up. otherwise, your requests for information are really just disengenuous rhetoric. you have no intention of finding these answers, nor would there be a way to satisfy you as to their accuracy if they were given to you. christian at least is willing to go to a library and pick up a book, and read it, and approach it with a somewhat open and questioning mind.
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Brad McFall Member (Idle past 5032 days) Posts: 3428 From: Ithaca,NY, USA Joined: |
wrong end train, they are fingers of the middle variety today.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Those middle toes look suspiciously like male thingies. Well---------some male thingies. "intelligent design"
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Are the proportions correct or artificially made to appear the same size? I would say that (1) the overal size of each leg must have been adjusted to appear the same size to show the actual change in proportions of the different bones (and this is only about the changes in the bones) and (2) they have to be proportional adjustments for each leg shown to be worth using at all: that is the purpose of the diagram eh? After all eohippus was 12 to 14" tall and a horse (equus) is 5-6 ft tall at the shoulder -- essentially 5 times as big based on overall size and not just of the hoof portion -- this would make the bone structure of the eohippus hard to see at the scale of the equus size. And all the other leg bones have changed some in their relative proportions - judging from the skeletons presented - as well: http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/fhc/hyraco1.htmhttp://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/fhc/equus1.htm But what you are really seeing is feature evolution (extension and further development) of the hoof from the eohippus foot while the unused portions become vestigial elements. The fusing of the toe bones in the equus hoof is also significant as it changes the behavior and ability of the bones relative to their function. The hoof also has added elements that are not present in the eohippus foot, as noted above. Enjoy. btw -- (really bad pun arachnophilia. stinks. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1343 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
btw -- (really bad pun arachnophilia. stinks. sorry, couldn't resist the temptation.
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