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Author | Topic: Sad what creationism can do to a mind, part 2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me....I'm sorry we're boring you. What's sadder are the "rebuttals" to the 5 differences between humans and animals. I am supposed to accept those as enough ?If that's the case, my original "basic evolution description" should EASILY suffice as valid, if those are the terms of justification. Hey, I miss Peter Borger too, he would BLOW you guys out of the water if he entered this discussion. As far as emotionally charged conversation, well, it takes one to know one... ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
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Originally posted by Mammuthus: Originally posted by sonnikke: Here are but a few differences that embody the immense chasm that separates us from the beasts: 1. We make and use tools. M: So do other primates...so do crows! S: Are you honestly saying that the rock an ape picks up to dig a hole with is comparable to the intricate tool designs we humans create? There is no comparison, we are so far superior that it isn't even funny. 2. Art. No animal has ever drawn beautiful pictures and expressionsof their creative imagination. M: Sorry, chimps can paint to... S: giving a chimp a paintbrush and watching him make a mess on a canvas is not even close to a 4 year old child who draws a picture using his imagination, not to mention a fine artist who renders a breathtaking ocean view for example... 3. Speech. Although animals can communicate, our speech is far superior including lenghty online debates between intelligent people, in written form. M: Since other animals are also capable of communication this point does not separate us from animals. Some animals have a superior sense of smell and use odor as a form of communication so I guess they must be superior? S: perhaps I should have been clearer. Animals cannot make words and speak like humans (some can IMITATE sounds, but that is a far cry) 4. Fire. Animals flee from fire, we USE fire. M: OK, if your house if burning down around you, you will not flee? LOL! S: Yes I would, after I had my family in a safe place, but that in no way proves anything. We still use and control fire, no animal can do that. 5. Burial. Humans bury their dead. We are aware of our mortality. We think about the forever after. M: How do you know what a chimp thinks about? Shoot at one and they don't just stand there...Neandertals buried there dead... S: Highly speculative.Neanderthals? They have been proven to be humans for quite some time now, no wonder they buried their loved ones. S:To believe we are animals, is to deny the very basic inate sensation of knowing we are human beings. M: To believe we are not animals is due to religious indoctrination and a complete lack science education. S: No it is common sense. And as far as part 2 goes,..is that a personal attack? We've put men on the moon, split the atom, sent probes to distant space, discovered and cured many diseases, painted the sistine chapel, built 500 meter towers, etc etc... It is obvious we are different. M:Let's see, you were not personally involved in any of those endeavors..I guess you are not human or special? S: What a strange and unwarranted conclusion based on pure assumptions...regardless of whether I was personally involved in any of those things, does not reduce the point, but I suppose that was the only answer you could come up with, realizing that the truth is so obvious, and our human differences explicitly deny that we are animals. ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
Are you three school boys having fun yet?
What's the name of your gang? Better hurry, recess is almost over.. ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Thank you Percy, I have respect for you. I've noticed you treat people decently and fairly. I think the point you made, is exactly what perhaps myself and Syamsu felt we couldn't say, and that is what makes the entire difference.You guys are correct in the fact that the dictionary definition : Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)Animal \An"i*mal\, n. [L., fr. anima breath, soul: cf. F. animal. See Animate.] 1. An organized living being endowed with sensation and the power of voluntary motion, and also characterized by taking its food into an internal cavity or stomach for digestion; by giving carbonic acid to the air and taking oxygen in the process of respiration; and by increasing in motive power or active aggressive force with progress to maturity. of "animal" can just as easily describe a human, but that is because it doesn't venture into the area that you just did. We are not animals because God made us in His image, and we DO hold a very special place in the universe. It also says 2. One of the lower animals; a brute or beast, asdistinguished from man; as, men and animals. "Distinguished from man", we are set apart, and if you guys can see that it is at minimum "spiritually", well then I think you are at least honest and open. Anyway, I may not be a molecular biologist, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck either, and it is good to see people, like Percy, showing their class. ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. [This message has been edited by sonnikke, 12-10-2002]
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: http://cogweb.ucla.edu/EP/Neanderthal.html Just for you Mammuthus ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
Let me ask you something:
Do you consider animals to be humans?
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Firstly, are you a race fan? I'm a HUGE F1 and CART fan, although F1 was kind of boring this year... Anyway, yes but a collie IS a dog right? if humans = animalsthen mathematically, animals = humans. I thought of this analogy the other day: Is a car an airplane? no, but both have wheels, both use fuel, both transport people, both are made of similar materials, both could be the same coloUr (notice Canadian ie. NOT color), both were DESIGNED..etc, etc... Here we're not even mentioning spirituality, and NO ONE would argue with me that an airplane is a car right? (If so I think we have problems ) ------------------Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Once again, Percy has proven that some people do have class...and MORE do NOT, and I thank him again. My "simple" math equation was obviously a "stab" to say that humans are NOT animals...whether a real math equation can actually be derived to prove the distinction of man; that possibility is not unreasonable. Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Hi Percy,Some thoughts: 1. Would the mockery displayed by the experts previously, result in a demotion?2. How would you evaluate the criteria? What would be the deciding factor that either promotes or demotes you? 3. "Percy: But demonstrating an ability to engage in productive discussion"...to me, and I admit I'm a novice, that would also mean that the experts should respond with respect and courtesy, without mockery. I don't know if it is appreciated the difficulty in discussing matters with "evo-experts", in that they always want "peer-reviewed proof", well the problem lies in that obviously "main stream" science doesn't want to deal with what they call "religious science", so any proof I could offer to back up my claims, would most likely come from an ID reference or a creationist reference. Those references seem to be immediately dismissed, and possible ad hominem responses follow.My basis in this thread has been to attempt to show, that when you state something at a basic level, it doesn't seem to make sense, this has been ridiculed. I maintain that even the most advanced and difficult scientific scenario, should and could be explained in simpler terms, and the failure to do so, is in my opinion, a diversion to avoid illuminating obvious flaws. I personally, would sooner have a forum as we have now, but simply agree that we will treat each other with respect and avoid ad hominem responses. If an opponent feels a question or statement is, in their opinion, childish, then simply choose not to respond. I would very much enjoy these discussions provided we keep it courteous.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: I would have thought the "old timers" would have the experience to treat everybody with respect.
quote:I explained that earlier, I was trying to make an obvious point. If you were so offended simply ignore it, it shouldn't undermine your position. quote:That was the point I made, and you just verified it. Creationists are in a no-win situation with you evo's. quote:So at least we agree on one thing. quote:ad hominem quote: Well, I have learned alot from these past weeks. Some of the posts may seem riduclous to you, but only because you are at the other end of the spectrum. If indeed, you were a creationist, you would agree that humans are not animals, and the post would make more sense. At any rate, let bygones be bygones and keep the civil discussions going.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote: Sounds like you just described "evolutionary science". "Prior commitments" to naturalism at all cost. If evidence doesn't match naturalistic belief or "framework", it is "ignored, rejected, or distorted". ie. utter lack of transitional fossils, inability of natural selection (and random mutation) to advance organisms to higher order, origin of life & matter - mystery, etc. Regards,S
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