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Author Topic:   George Bush protecting your civil liberties by breaking them
Silent H
Member (Idle past 3992 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 31 of 220 (270677)
12-19-2005 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by nwr
12-18-2005 8:02 PM


I took jar as meaning what he said (i.e. "does"). I'm wondering how you are reading "doesn't" into that.

That was a joke. I was kidding around because I had obviously made a HUGE error.

I think why I made the mistake I did is that he started the sentence with "while", and that led me to believe the second part of his sentence would be negative in nature. The presumption led to me reading it as doesn't. What's funny is that I thought it was weird he'd be saying that and DID reread the post, AND I STILL GOT IT WRONG!

Just goes to show I can really make some stupid mistakes.


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by cavediver, posted 12-19-2005 5:05 AM Silent H has responded

    
cavediver
Member (Idle past 1816 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 32 of 220 (270682)
12-19-2005 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Silent H
12-19-2005 4:15 AM


Just goes to show I can really make some stupid mistakes.

What's even more worrying is that both I and seemingly nwr managed to read your humourous apology to Jar as somehow being a reassertion of your original comment. Just shows how fallible speed reading can be...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Silent H, posted 12-19-2005 4:15 AM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Silent H, posted 12-19-2005 6:03 AM cavediver has not yet responded

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 3992 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 33 of 220 (270685)
12-19-2005 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by cavediver
12-19-2005 5:05 AM


What's even more worrying is that both I and seemingly nwr managed to read your humourous apology to Jar as somehow being a reassertion of your original comment. Just shows how fallible speed reading can be...

Oh Gods... I hope Jar didn't think that.

I guess this is a sign to edit the post to make it more clear. But I STILL refuse to use smiley faces damn it!


holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by cavediver, posted 12-19-2005 5:05 AM cavediver has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 12-19-2005 10:41 AM Silent H has not yet responded
 Message 43 by Omnivorous, posted 12-19-2005 12:46 PM Silent H has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30997
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 34 of 220 (270723)
12-19-2005 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Silent H
12-19-2005 6:03 AM


Understood and enjoyed.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2101 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 35 of 220 (270735)
12-19-2005 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Funkaloyd
12-17-2005 9:06 PM


Re: Fact is..
exactly.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Funkaloyd, posted 12-17-2005 9:06 PM Funkaloyd has not yet responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2101 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 36 of 220 (270736)
12-19-2005 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by joshua221
12-17-2005 8:10 PM


Re: Fact is..
As americans we are all content, we have no impetus from which to argue because we can all admit it, we are living so damn good.

living well. and speak for yourself. i'm a polisci student. and i'm waiting for the day when i propose or present or publish a paper and am declared an enemy of the state and sent to gitmo. and i'm not kidding.

Even the few who can argue and debate from the standpoint of reason and with validity express why they hate bush's policies, it is of no use, because these people will proably not affect anything in the long run anyway.

whole lot of confidence you have in our constitution...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by joshua221, posted 12-17-2005 8:10 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2101 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 37 of 220 (270737)
12-19-2005 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
12-18-2005 12:05 AM


Re: time of war
Right or wrong, if we are considered in a time of war, and under threat, Bush's actions are entirely consistent with other president's in our nation's history. It's not a new precedent. Lincoln suspended aspects of Constitutional rights when he felt necessary.

Heck, we were probably closest to a police state while Woodrow Wilson was president.

just because there is precedence doesn't make it right. there's a reason i hate lincoln. we are not at war. he declared the war in iraq over. if congress doesn't declare war, we're not in it.


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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 38 of 220 (270755)
12-19-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Nuggin
12-18-2005 3:53 PM


Re: time of war
That's right. Presidents barely step over the line and get slammed all the time. The CIA kidnaps, tortures, experiments on and kills American citizens over a 40 year period (MK-ULtra), and nary a peep is mentioned by the mainstream media.

Just keep that in mind, please.


This message is a reply to:
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clpMINI
Member (Idle past 3338 days)
Posts: 116
From: Richmond, VA, USA
Joined: 03-22-2005


Message 39 of 220 (270756)
12-19-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
12-18-2005 3:32 PM


Re: all communications are monitored
And from what I have read in the news, it is also a clear violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) as well. This act pretty much says that you can't electronically spy on US Citizens without a court order. And apparantly these court orders are given out pretty freely, and often after the fact. So if Bush wanted to do all this, he probably could have done it all legally, but he chose not to.

I also heard on one of the Sunday Morning political shows that the method he used required presidential re-authorization every 45 days. So about every month and a half since the first order, back in 2002, Bush has made the decision to disregard the law.

clpMINI

This message has been edited by clpMINI, 12-19-2005 12:40 PM


Nuggin: I would rather that cows pooped ice cream sandwiches
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 40 of 220 (270757)
12-19-2005 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Nuggin
12-18-2005 3:48 PM


Re: War or No, Bush has too much power
These are the same powers Clinton tried to push through after the OKC bombing. It's bipartisan. Bush is not the problem.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Nuggin, posted 12-18-2005 3:48 PM Nuggin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Theodoric, posted 12-19-2005 12:45 PM randman has responded
 Message 56 by Nuggin, posted 12-19-2005 7:44 PM randman has not yet responded

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 41 of 220 (270758)
12-19-2005 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by jar
12-18-2005 4:04 PM


Re: randman again tries to change the subject
First off, he has a legal loophole but you are so busy hating Bush, it's a waste of time talking with you about it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by jar, posted 12-18-2005 4:04 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6318
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 42 of 220 (270760)
12-19-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by randman
12-19-2005 12:41 PM


Re: War or No, Bush has too much power
These are the same powers Clinton tried to push through after the OKC bombing.

Please expand on this. Please cite souces and specifics.

Thanks


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by randman, posted 12-19-2005 12:41 PM randman has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 49 by jar, posted 12-19-2005 1:05 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1140 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 43 of 220 (270761)
12-19-2005 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Silent H
12-19-2005 6:03 AM


holmes writes:

I guess this is a sign to edit the post to make it more clear. But I STILL refuse to use smiley faces damn it!

:D

Join us.

Resistance is fusty.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Silent H, posted 12-19-2005 6:03 AM Silent H has not yet responded

    
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 44 of 220 (270762)
12-19-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Silent H
12-18-2005 4:28 PM


Re: time of war
point is that it gets stopped when it is found.

That's where you are naive.

I realize the technical possibility is there. That it is going on is not necessarily proven. But if so, is this not something we should be concerned about and fighting?

WorldNetDaily was one of the few media sources reporting on Echelon back when the mainstream media laughed at the story. All the liberals I know dismissed it because it occurred in Clinton's reign. So please excuse me if I don't take the leftist hoopla very seriously here.

Bush can easily eavesdrop legally via our partnerships with other nations and the NSA. It's not something new. It's being politicized for some reason. Ultimately, it's probably a disinformation campaign.

Make a big stink out of these infractions, and leave the impression that the government is being restricted in this area all the while such activities are increasing. Same with the torture media stuff.

It's disinformation, imo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Silent H, posted 12-18-2005 4:28 PM Silent H has responded

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3072 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 45 of 220 (270763)
12-19-2005 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Silent H
12-18-2005 4:28 PM


Re: time of war
Where are your principles as a conservative? Govt out of people's lives? Where is your outrage?

My outrage is informed, not misled. I've been railing about government snooping and breaking the law for a long time now. Those of us that oppose such activities are well aware that something as trivial as a president eavesdropping on suspected terrorists is small potatoes, and making a big fuss out of it leaves the wrong impression, that somehow such activities are generally exposed and stopped when the opposite is true.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 55 by Silent H, posted 12-19-2005 4:33 PM randman has not yet responded

  
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