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Originally posted by Chara:
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Originally posted by schrafinator:
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I'm trying to avoid being condescending or preachy here, I'm just saying if someone is claiming a personal relationship with God, that maybe they have an extra "sense" or a divinely given "understanding".
...or maybe they are making up a fantasy that comforts them and helps them get through their life.
How do you tell the difference between the two?
You can't.
That's why I'm an Agnostic.
This is an interesting thought though schraf. When I first read your statement that we can only know what our senses tell us, I thought of a blind person and how limited their knowledge must be if they were to rely on ONLY their own senses. They must trust others whose sense of sight is "working". They would miss out on a lot if they did not. (I realize of course that they couldn't believe everything they were told). In the same way, presupposing that there is a spiritual sense, (like forgiven's example of Elijah praying that his servant would see the heavenly host encamped around them), those whose spiritual sense is not "working" can only rely on those whose is. I wonder if we shouldn't at least be open that idea?
Sure, we can be open.
However, how do you tell the difference between "spiritual sense", meaning a "real" connection to God, and a self-constructed fantasy, perpetuated and strongly reinforced by culture?
We can see hints of which way is the more likely way.
One of the biggest hints, to me, it the fact that people generally believe in God in the way they are taught at childhood to believe in God. People raised in Christian communities are extremely likely to be Christians their whole lives; the same is true of Islamic, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhist, etc. communities.
(Actually, Buddhists don't believe in God, and Hindus believe in many gods)
This indicates to me that the culture one lives in determines one's beliefs much more than any special sense abilities.
Your blind person analogy is weak for another reason. Sight is one of the natural senses. We understand how eyes work and we even know where in the brain much of visual perception occurs.
Are you proposing that "spiritual sense" has a physical basis? (I think it does, but this, of course, doesn't mean that the supernatural has anything to do with it)
It has been shown that people who are very religious have a larger-than-average part in their brain which seems to relate to feelings of euphoria/religious high.
I conclude that the capacity for "spiritual" feelings was an evolutionary advantage to our ancestors because it strengthened social bonds.