Steps toward loss and restoration of Salvation

Hi Mr. Ex. I gather that this is intended to be mostly a conversation with IanO but since it isn't a Great Debate maybe I can put my two cents worth in? Just to say that I don't see any contradiction between our inheritance of sin through Adam's fall and Adam's having the indwelling Spirit, as the Spirit is given for faith and certainly Eve and no doubt Adam too had faith in the promised Messiah. However, I don't think that Adam DID have the indwelling Spirit although I believe he was saved. Only those born AD have that privilege. But nevertheless many were saved before Christ by trusting in God's promise of the Messiah. It has become an individual thing. In Adam all die, in Christ all are made alive, through faith, so those born in Adam, inheriting original sin, may nevertheless look to Christ -- BC or AD doesn't matter -- and inherit eternal life in Him. I suspect I have some of the theology wrong here, being sure of this but neverthless uncertain as to how to explain clearly that Adam both bequeaths the fallen nature to his progeny and is personally saved. {AbE: Maybe this is clarifying: I'm thinking of it in terms of the way all who are in Christ through faith cannot be certain their own children will be saved. We all bequeath the fallen nature to our children, even those of us who are regenerate in Christ -- original sin is universal but salvation is individual.}This message has been edited by Faith, 12-18-2005 10:34 AM

Ay yi yi. Perhaps I just didn't understand what your topic is exactly. And perhaps I don't know enough theology in this arena to answer you anyway. In any case I'm sorry to say that post is too much for me to try to figure out and answer. Probably it's just that I hadn't been following the earlier conversation with IanO.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-18-2005 05:45 PM

All I know is that the theology I'm familiar with says the Holy Spirit was poured out to indwell us because of Christ's death, resurrection and ascension. If perhaps He indwelt some pre-Christ it would have been on account of their faith in God, and particularly in God's promise of the Savior to come, but I'm not prepared to argue this theology one way or the other.If I'm understanding what you are saying about Adam, it seems likely to me that Adam WAS indwelt by the Holy Spirit until he disobeyed, but just because he lost this indwelling, it doesn't mean those who are in Christ can lose it, as the New Covenant in His blood guarantees our being indwelt unto eternity.{AbE: another idea is that the human spirit made in the image of God is what Adam had, in its perfect state in which free communion with God could occur. I'll have to read up on the theology of all this though.}This message has been edited by Faith, 12-18-2005 09:57 PM

"Mix?" According to the New Testament, it fulfills and explains the Old. But this is no doubt off topic on this thread.

Jesus in Revelation tells us that the serpent in Eden was Satan, so that isn't something this thread is imposing on the text. Original sin which IS the Fall definitely is a New Testament interpretation of the Old, so, again, it's not being imposed on the text by this thread. About the Spirit indwelling I'm not enough up on the texts.

What makes how the Jewish faith views Genesis or anything else important to this topic? The Christian faith strongly disagrees. He quoted the ascended Christ. That's what it says. Again, Jesus Himself told us the snake in Eden was Satan.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-20-2005 09:50 AM

Again, I don't see the relevance of what the Jewish faith has to say on any of this; The New Testament interprets the Old. You are right, however, that John isn't quoting the ascended Christ about the serpent, I looked it up. But he does quote him through the first chapters of Revelation. There are elements that refer to Rome at the time, certainly, what does that have to do with the topic?

Well, you have every right to believe that, of course, but Christians are under no obligation to view it as you do. In fact you are asking us not to be Christians. The New Testament clearly presents itself as a commentary on the Old, it elucidates meanings that in some sense were hidden (though really just misinterpreted) and it reveals that Genesis certainly does foreshadow the coming of a Savior.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-20-2005 10:25 AMThis message has been edited by Faith, 12-20-2005 11:43 AM

It will be asserted no doubt, but it will be wrong.

Message 37

It could imply that, or it could imply that they were accustomed to eating from that tree as long as they were in God's good graces, but when they fell it became dangerous to eat from it as it would only confirm them in their evil sin nature forever.