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Author | Topic: Nature and the fall of man | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
The events are Natural. Well, God set up nature, so He's ultimately responsible, even if He's a hands-off God. So if He set up nature, he set up indirectly all those disasters that befall people.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
why does god let natural disasters happen?
hmm. the nile floods so that the ground can be replenished. fires rampage through florida and california so the conifers can reproduce and the pest plants (the ground cover crap like palmettos) can be cleared out. nature has a cycle of warming and cooling and flooding and burning and wind-blow and such because it makes the earth renew. most animals manage to know about these things and go to safe places. sure, some die, but many live. as to disease, bacteria are living things too and deserve their chance at life just like leaches and other parisites. just because you think it's wrong doesn't make it wrong. the world is finite. all must die. that's the way of the world. rock is swallowed by the planet and melted then spewed out of a volcano and becomes rock again. so too the world must be reborn. the only reason these are 'disasters' is that humans are so interested in their own well-being as to ignore the well-being of the earth. we restrict and prevent fires and the ancient redwoods are soon to pass away. we block natural floods and our farmlands go barren and require artificial fertilizers which poison our waters. we scream about these terrible things but pay no mind to the way they make the whole earth new. we are so dependant on consistency and stability that the cycles of the earth terrify us. why does god allow terrible things to happen? because they aren't terrible. they are oprecious and amazing. just because you're not smart enough to watch the animals as they evacuate before a tsunami... and really, what's so terrible about a nice, juicy steak... for me or a lion?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
why does god allow terrible things to happen? because they aren't terrible You didn't mention birth defects. I guess they aren't terrible either--just "amazing."
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i was discussing natural disasters. the simple statement that god didn't create a flawless being with flawless dna is something else entirely.
birth defects. well. if we are evolving, then that's part of the deal. and if people are stupid and drink or smoke or do drugs or lick christmas lights (read the package) then they get a messed up kid. life is fragile and shifting. birth defects lead to death in the wild. so would asthma. think about how we have overcome natural selection and how 'great' that is for us and how much better we are than god because we save so many babies from dying. how about genocide, war, etc. well. people are fucking nasty.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Again, you are taking a human centric and very shallow view of events, and turning GOD into a very small and pitiable creature.
Well, God set up nature, so He's ultimately responsible, even if He's a hands-off God. So if He set up nature, he set up indirectly all those disasters that befall people. I don't think you had time enough to read all 300+ messages in the thread I linked to, or even just the direct exchanges between myself and Gilgamesh on that very subject. But let me try to give you a few examples to see if I can explain my point of view. A female mosquito bites a human. The human gets milaria. The mosquito gets a meal and so can reproduce. From the human's point of view that is a tragedy. From the mosquito's point of view it was a successful event. From the point of view of nearly everything else in the universe, it was simply neutral. Some 65 thousand years ago a meteor crashed to earth a few hundreds of miles from where I live. The impact caused devestation around the world. The result was bad for those dinosaurs that died out, good for those that evolved into birds, opened niches that let mammals evolve and eventually lead to humans. I happen to believe in a Good GOD, one that loves everything equally. The system he set up is perfect. Life goes on and has done so for billions of years that we know about. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
duplicate post, see above. Sorry.
This message has been edited by jar, 12-28-2005 12:58 PM Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Test post...
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread moved here from the Faith and Belief forum.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Thread moved here from the Practice Makes Perfect forum.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Test Post...
AbE: All is well, continue debating... This message has been edited by Admin, 12-26-2005 08:12 PM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
A female mosquito bites a human. The human gets milaria. The mosquito gets a meal and so can reproduce. From the human's point of view that is a tragedy. From the mosquito's point of view it was a successful event. From the point of view of nearly everything else in the universe, it was simply neutral So if I get cancer, that's bad for me but good for the cancer, which after all, has a right to live too. If a baby is born with a severe birth defect, that's bad for the baby, but good for . . . good for. . .
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You keep zeroing right in on it. Fun to watch.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
You keep zeroing right in on it. Fun to watch Well, everything's perfect. I'm just too human-centric and me-centric to see it. God's in his heaven, all's right with the world. A different type of piety. It strikes me as mere sentimentality.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Good word, piety. Yes, a piety that tenderly protects the rights of cancer and bacteria. Getting those priorities straight.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Yes, a piety that tenderly protects the rights of cancer and bacteria In my view, it's an attempt to graft modern humanistic ideas onto a two thousand year old religion. But in order to make it nice, we are going to have to de-emphasize certain unpleasant ideas such as the Fall and the Passion. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 12-28-2005 07:55 AM
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