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Author Topic:   Man raised back to life in Jesus' name
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 31 of 300 (272895)
12-26-2005 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Theodoric
12-26-2005 4:03 PM


Re: Milk miracle debunked
OK, well maybe it is a hoax...or people misinterpeting something. It's not related to the things I have witnessed. I have witnessed miracles in reaction to prayer in the name of Jesus. As far as statues, I am not dismissive, but if the substance of the statue can absorb liquid, then that should be easily tested. I guess we'd have to see if the substance really absorbs liquid.
This message has been edited by randman, 12-26-2005 04:16 PM

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 32 of 300 (272940)
12-26-2005 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
12-26-2005 2:57 PM


Re: prove it
randman
I readily admitted when I placed this in Coffee House that I wasn't trying to "prove" it was a miracle. I believe the story since I have seen miracles, and you do not.
What do the miracles you make the claim to have witnessed entail exactly? Also how did you go about critically evaluating these miracles?
This message has been edited by sidelined, Mon, 2005-12-26 03:51 PM

But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by randman, posted 12-26-2005 2:57 PM randman has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 33 of 300 (272954)
12-26-2005 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by randman
12-26-2005 4:12 PM


Re: prove it
heh. funny that you're not denying what a heathen god can do.
i personally am tempted to believe that the woman in post 1 was unable to properly identify a pulse. what are her pulse-obtaining credentials? i'm a lifeguard. did she take a cpr class in middle school or something?

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 34 of 300 (272998)
12-26-2005 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by sidelined
12-26-2005 5:49 PM


Re: prove it
sidelined, I don't treat the things of God via science, and learned that it is not always wise to try to use "proof" to let people know in terms of documentating miracles. I have seen myself, and have had close friends be the recipient of, many miracles, and know missionaries in the field that have witnessed even greater miracles.
Pretty much all the same stuff that happened in Jesus' time with a few exceptions such as walking on the water or changing the water to wine occur today, and in being a Christian for the past 18 years, I have seen all these things occur or talked with others who saw them occur firsthand. These include the deaf and blind being cured, healings of terminal diseases, new body parts in a few cases, new teeth, miraculous things which I don't really want to get into too much on this forum, and even the recently died being brought back to life (this last one heard from others).
I know a woman for instance that prayed for a baby that had died, after the doctors had stopped trying, and about 20-30 minutes after the baby was declared dead, and she went in and prayed for her friend's baby. She is Christian and her friend was Jewish, and she prayed in the name of Jesus and the baby was brought back to life. The doctors and staff were amazed. This happened in Israel and caused such a stir she had to leave the country for a little while but she's been back. Know the lady myself, and there are other reports.
Most of what I have seen involve miracles besides someone actually passing away being restored.

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Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 35 of 300 (273003)
12-26-2005 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by sidelined
12-26-2005 5:49 PM


Re: prove it
Let me add a small miracle but which would be hard to fake. I had a friend that had fillings in his teeth go up for prayer in a healing meeting and when he came back to his seat the fillings were gone and he had tooth where the fillings were.
I know a guy staying at my brother-in-laws that went up for prayer with the older darker colored fillings come back with gold fillings. I was not at the meeting, but looked at the fillings myself as we were all staying at the same house. They were also intricate drawings on the gold.
Now, those are not the most important miracles, but they certainly were not faked. When the anointing and presence of God are involved, miraculous things can happen.
One time a guy that just broke his leg came to a meeting and God healed his leg, but he was not sure because he had the cast. The doctors said it would take 6 weeks. He went in and had it examined, and the leg was totally healed and they took the cast off. This sort of thing is not unheard of, or incredibly unusual.
But that doesn't mean we all get a miracle when we want one, or we would all be healthy and rich. We do though receive something better than a miracle though.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 36 of 300 (273004)
12-26-2005 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by randman
12-26-2005 7:31 PM


Re: prove it
If you expect us to take any f this as proof, please provide reference to these reports of this miracle.
It is absolutely hilarious that you demand proof from others, but always refuse to provide proof yourself. That really makes you look rather petty and silly.

Barb's Site
Exposing the radical right with facts

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Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 37 of 300 (273009)
12-26-2005 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by randman
12-26-2005 7:31 PM


Re: prove it
Pretty much all the same stuff that happened in Jesus' time with a few exceptions such as......changing the water to wine occur today
That's one of 'em we need the most! What's with that Guy?

This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 38 of 300 (273011)
12-26-2005 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Theodoric
12-26-2005 7:38 PM


prove it how?
If you expect us to take any f this as proof, please provide reference to these reports of this miracle.
i'm gonna interrupt this because it's getting stupid (on both sides).
you can't prove a miracle, you know it. miracles are by definition outside the realm of naturalism, and thus cannot be shown by any amount of evidence. it is therefor up to the person claiming it is not a miracle to provide evidence to the contrary -- if a natural explanation can be shown, it is NOT a miracle.
this is substantially different than, say, the loch ness monster. nessie, presumably, if she exists, is a real animal. so in the abscence of credible evidence the burden of proof lays on the person making the claim. they can reasonably go out, and capture nessie, and show that she does exist.
we can't do this with miracles -- all we CAN show is that something is not a miracle. the best we can do with a miracle to show that to the best of our knowledge something COULD be.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 39 of 300 (273014)
12-26-2005 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by arachnophilia
12-26-2005 7:50 PM


Re: prove it how?
I am just trying to point out how ridiculous Randman is in what he expects from others but refuses to provide himself.
He can't have it both ways
This message has been edited by Theodoric, 12-26-2005 07:01 PM

Barb's Site
Exposing the radical right with facts

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 40 of 300 (273016)
12-26-2005 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by arachnophilia
12-26-2005 7:50 PM


Re: prove it how?
But when one makes the claim of a miracle I would expect there to be more reports, doctors records...if something medically miraculous happened I would expect corroborating reports of it happening. Without this it is only a subjective claim. Miracle it may be, but it is just heresay.

Asgara
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This message is a reply to:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 41 of 300 (273045)
12-26-2005 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Coragyps
12-26-2005 7:46 PM


Re: prove it
good point...but you can't always get what you want..

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Madfish
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 300 (273056)
12-26-2005 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by randman
12-26-2005 7:37 PM


Re: prove it
Fillings? God spends his time with fillings while children starve and people die from war and disease?

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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 300 (273057)
12-26-2005 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by randman
12-26-2005 7:37 PM


Re: prove it
randman writes:
But that doesn't mean we all get a miracle when we want one, or we would all be healthy and rich. We do though receive something better than a miracle though.
Hi Randman. Your is true (AbE: that we don't always get a miracle, but also, as you have stated it's also true that some times we do.}. I was once instantly healed after the elders of the church I was attending anointed me with oil and prayed after I asked them to do so in a Sunday evening service. I was in the Air Force, stationed at Griffis AFB, Rome, NY back in the fifties. I was to begin a long hitch hike trip to Wyoming to see my folks the next AM. I had had a very persistent cough for over a month and felt the need of a healing before being exposed to the elements so long. In fact, I was hacking away even in the service with this cough. After the prayer and anointing which was done before the preaching, I returned to my seat and never coughed once the rest of the evening. I also never coughed all the way to Wyo, though often I stood out in the elememts between rides, sometimes into the cool night. I have never since had a problem with long cough spells as I had had prior to this. The churches I have been involved with were not pentacostal types. Rarely in the churches I have attended do they advocate this anointing, et al, so I had to specifically request it when it has been done.
I have received anointing and prayer since on several occasions with satisfactory results, but none since which were instantaneous.
I have received myself and heard tell by reliable sources, many miracles. I never try to convince anyone that they should believe them. These are personal things which we can know are miraculous and too unusual to be natural, but to try to prove it to someone else is futle. It's something you have to exeperience, just as the presence of the Holy Spirit is something that must be personally experienced.
I have initiated threads in the past here on the Exodus Video research of the chariot wheels photographed in the Gulf of Aqaba and the corroborating stuff in the region pertaining to the Biblical account of the Exodus. The secularists here nearly all debunked it, inspite of the video researched evidence by a marine biologist who was also quite experienced in archeological research and marine photograpy, so if they reject that which they could view, why should we expect them to accept miracles they can't see.
Imo, every fulfilled Biblical prophecy which can be verified is a miracle, but alas, few, even among the clergy care enough to investigate, preach on or to even read and study them.
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 12-26-2005 10:42 PM

From "THE MONKEY'S VIEWPOINT: Man descended, the ornery cuss, but he surely did not descend from us!"

This message is a reply to:
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Madfish
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 300 (273058)
12-26-2005 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by randman
12-26-2005 2:57 PM


Re: prove it
quote:
You said it was not a miracles. Prove it.
If someone claims they have been visited by magical unicorns, are we allowed to disagree? Is the burden on us skeptics to prove that such a visitation never happened?
If we are not justified in asking for evidence for such a claim, how can we seperate the real from the imagined?
quote:
Your childish insistence it is not a miracled based on no evidence at all is indicative of evos in general.
Using the above as an example, how can I prove that magical unicorns never visited? Does the fact that I can't prove they didn't, give any credibility to the claim? No, certainly not.
quote:
You assert somethign you cannot substantiate and then when called on it, run.
You mean, like the assertion that the news story is a miracle?

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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 45 of 300 (273059)
12-26-2005 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Asgara
12-26-2005 8:00 PM


Re: prove it how?
But when one makes the claim of a miracle I would expect there to be more reports, doctors records...if something medically miraculous happened I would expect corroborating reports of it happening. Without this it is only a subjective claim. Miracle it may be, but it is just heresay.
yes, SOMETHING would be nice. people who like to make extraordinary claims seem to like third-hand tales, fuzzy pictures, and shaky home videos.
("heresay" = hearsay + heresy?)

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
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