Christmas music

unless you can listen to all the music ever made you are making a sweeping statement, and its on you to prove your statements not me, i'm not the one making the claim you are!

You often find yourself in that position, Faith.Your opinion is all the evidence you need to feel confident you are right to make sweeping claims of spiritual and cultural superiority; the evidence of thousands of years of high culture outside Christianity, is not evidence at all.In response to the observation that this is the very definition of cultural bias fueled by ignorance and religious self-righteousness, you claim the critique is ad hominem.Fascinating, indeed.

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Faith: I withdraw my claim about lots of Virgin Mary music being out there. Aside from some really old Masses, there isn't much.But we do have Beethoven, Wagner, Benjamin Brittan, the Rolling Stones, Zappa.... all of whom are pretty sparing on the Jesus and capable of being pretty moving.

People may be interested in, and interested in posting to (in no particular order): If being Christian is so great, why is the music so bad?Music on both sidesWhat is Christian music?Looney Tunes, or Music in GeneralMusic (aka - The internet is dead and I'm bored)music, or lack ofWhat's your Fav jazz track?Maybe some of what's happening in this topic better belongs in one of the cited.Moose

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[opinion mode]I just don't get it.Sublime? What the hell? The story of Jesus reads more like bad fiction to me - but hey, why should it be different from most of the rest of the bible...I don't like Christmas carols and quite frankly most stereotypical Christian music sounds hollow to me.Oh, hell, while I'm being honest about it - I really, really hate 99% of all Christmas music. Especially the carols - yes, every last damn one of them. I've been thanking my lucky stars that this year I'm not working someplace that plays them 24/7. Hymns make me wince. They sound false, lying, utterly hollow with every word - I cannot bring myself to take any joy in the actual tune.What baffles me beyond anything else is that you rate them over the true masterpieces - musical pieces that are the embodiment of a single emotion or ideal, that do not need mere words to speak directly to the heart. Like Beethovan's Ode to Joy - which is indeed just that, and can lift anyone's spirits - or the Romeo and Juliet Overture, which in my opinion is the purest expression of true love ever created by human hands... Or more recently Rhapsody in Blue, or Chariots of Fire... Should I go on?What arrogance to say that they are somehow worth less, just because they were not inspired by the stories of your religion. I would rate them a thousand times higher than the pathetic droning you so laughably call music. [/opinion mode]Okay, now before I get flamed...I'm posting this to illustrate the point that music is very, very subjective. Calling any one type of music "better" than another is pointless, because it comes down to personal taste every time. Just because something sounds fantastic to one person doesn't mean that it won't make the next person's ears bleed.Making sweeping statements about one particular type of music is automatically better because its somehow divinely inspired is about as silly as saying that the bible is better because its somehow divinely inspired. Again, it's all subjective and personal.(For the record - I think "Stairway to Heaven" is total crap.)

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You may as well say that Bach's music isn't music at all, but rather, classical. First, let's see the evidence that you're right.

I gave the evidence in my first posts, argued from my examples. I illustrated my point amply. Everyone disagrees, which is fine, but nobody gives any evidence to support the disagreement, it's all namecalling, I'm such a vile person for the opinion I hold. This thread has become a bashfest. Not fun any more.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-27-2005 05:37 PM

Since Faith mentions my example of the Weinachts Oratorium, I would like to make it clear that the pleasure I take from listening to this music does not come from the words, but from the way it sounds. I never listen to what they are actually saying. I'm not interested in the religious content, I just love the music.

My point was that such music would not have been written for lesser subject matter, whether anyone pays attention to the subject matter or not.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-27-2005 05:48 PM

Yes, aesthetics is underrated.

I disagree. For example, I find "Barcarolle" from Offenbach's "Hoffmann's Tales" as enchanting as anything Bach wrote, but "Hoffmann's Tales" is secular in character.As IrishRockhound said, it's all very subjective and a matter of taste.This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 27-Dec-2005 11:03 PM

Indeed it is.

I disagree but you can prove me wrong I would think. I believe Western classical music achieved its heights because of its Christian inspiration, although its aesthetic achievements were also expressed in "secular" music -- in fact the Reformation inspired a greater appreciation of the natural and secular worlds, but all based on the revelation of Christ who reigns over it all. I would think this could be easily enough disproved somehow if it weren't so, going back to the origins of the musical forms, but there doesn't seem to me to be any other explanation for the heights reached by Western classical music than its development out of Christian worship of God.Taste enters into it when it comes to individual works, but it doesn't define the whole picture here.This message has been edited by Faith, 12-27-2005 06:14 PM

a bash fest?, how is it a bash fest? because we don't agree with your views? stop playing the martyr card faith we aren't out to get you, so stop acting like we areYou act like disagreeing with your statements is some how attacking you, pretty much you are saying that everything but christian music is junk, which is purely subjective. who is calling you names?personally i think you ave being a bit hyper-sensitive, plus you haven't provided evidence of anything, what you feel is not always what people feel, making sweeping statements about music you never heard is not right, if its meaningful to you thats great!

Now THAT is a bashfest.