Hmmm...I'll do search and see if there are any cultures that currently use different social rhythms -- and I'll check to see what their average life-spans are -- and how their behavior differs from ours, such as crime rates, etc.edit: doccted spe;;ing..or something like that. ugh...spellcheck goodly...Happpy Halloween!This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 10-30-2005 01:49 AM

I didn't say that it couldn't be an artist's rendition of an actual event. It's just not an actual picture of the event, as the top of the building was drawn in.

Yes. It follows from, "God is perfect;" and I wouldn't call that atypical. If so, if God is the creator of everything, then God is necessarily imperfect.

Maybe you could read through this: Online Book: Our Lord's Mother Visits Egypt in 1968 & 1969 by Pearl Zaki, and then I'll explain to you why it actually is an authentic photograph -- I have a degree in graphic arts, am trained in photography, and also have a degree in general drafting by the way.I've been told I'm also good at digital image manipulation using photoshop too. Check out my avatar when you have a chance. arach, if you're reading this, please note that I haven't forgetten about the "negative space" discussion we had before. It's not finished yet.

I would rather say God is not omnipotent actually.Most powerful? Yes.Omnipotent? No.But I've been stressing this point for a while now.

I've been side-tracked with iano for a bit purpledawn. Please note I haven't forgetten. I've found some interesting things and I would like to take my time to edit some things and present it in the short, concise and yet accurate format you suggested.

Still working on a few things. I want to trim it down so it's concise, clear, and to the point.

the only pages i've read in this forum are the first, tenth and eleventh.Mr. Ex Nihilo,the basic cut and dried point i gather from the first page is that you think if there is any remote circumstance that a particular person could believe in God, under the right conditions, even though they do not currently believe, then they will be saved.this is incorrect.if it were true, there would be no point in putting man on earth. we are here so that we can be given all the evidence and make a decision based on that evidence assuming we are mentally able. those exempt are the mentally handicapped and infants who are not mentally developed enough to form their own beliefs. in these cases their default is heaven.purpledawn is right. and from what i've read, your arrogance is preventing you from seeing that.from an earlier point you made; you can't use an analogy to uphold or prove an opinion. yours was polarising magnets - if given the right magnetic force they will polarise in any direction. i could give an analogy to back my opinion - criminals are put in prison because they choose to commit a crime. however, not all people are put in prison just because they are capable of commiting a crime.analogys are good for understanding, not proving.Mr. Ex, while quoting someone else, don't take what they say out of context to make yourself sound right. if you did this deliberately or not is not the point, you still did it.also, there was a question earlier that basically asked why no evidence of God?from the beginning until Jesus died, there were miracles, and people believed by seeing acts of God. after He died, until the end of this world, the period we live in, there will be no obvious acts of God, and those of us who believe must do so with faith alone. in the one thousand years to come, the period of a new heaven and new earth, God will once again make himself known by acts on this earth, and people will once again believe by seeing the evidence. this i why we don't see solid irrefutable evidence, because we are in this middle period.Mr. Ex, if you feel you have something to say about what i have said, by all means, don't hold back.This message has been edited by REALIST, 01-03-2006 12:37 AM

heh heh......and you call me arrogant?By all means, if you beleive that my previous assertions are incorrect, then please submit your counter points to my particular assertions.All's I've read so far from you basically boils down to, "You're wrong and I'm right...and purpledawn is right too. N'yah! N'yah!"Not terribly convincing in my opinion.Edit: I just re-read through your post to see ig I misunderstood anything. Here's one of your quotes from above: Um...no...that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that those who manifest Christ in their lives will be saved (heaven) and those who do not manifest Christ in their lives will be damned (hell).In other words, God judges each individual in proportion to that which is revealed to them -- and he holds each individual accountable to that which is revealed in proportion to what he has enabled them to grasp.Period.Determining exactly who is authentically manifesting Christ in their lives is what this thread is pretty much all about. Only God knows for sure -- but I think there are indications in the Scriptures which we can call upon to analyze the potential for each personThis message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 12-22-2005 10:39 PM

Well ... Mr. REALIST ... I'm still waiting for your response...*sigh*Here, let me back up a bit and quote something you said previously... No. We are here so we can be open to the motion of the Holy Spirit and do God's will as best as we are able to according to what portion of revelation has been granted individually to each of us.Doing God's will, as far as our limited human experience is concerned, is the very evidence that God is active in them. I agree with you here ... and I've explained this in detail already ... but why are you willing to make these excemptions for those who are mentally handicapped -- and infants who are not mentally developed enough to form their own beliefs -- but yet not make allowances for those who have never had the gospel fairly presented to them.Certainly, in the case where someone is raised within a culture which is radically foreign to the values of the Christian faith, certainly these people would have been raised within a "spiritually handicapped" culture, wouldn't they?It seems to me that there are certain groups within the Christian faith which have been held sway under the adversary's conceitedness -- thinking too highly of themselves -- and are working very hard to make sure that others beleive that anyone who doesn't think the same as them is going straight to hell.In fact, over and over again, the main objection I hear from some other Christians is that it would mean the Christian faith has no purpose being here -- which is incorrect. In my opinion, this is the very heart of the problem -- some Christians need to feel more important than others, and they have no qualms making sure that others feel like excrement so long as it makes themselves feel good.Like the older brother in the story of the prodical son, there is no joy in them over the fact that others might be saved. There's only this bitter and jealous resentment that they perhaps wasted their time in a faith that they wouldn't have had to follow if what I'm saying is true (which would be another misunderstanding of what I've said).Sad really.The reason why we follow Christ is because he's true (He is true God and true man, he was born of the Virgin, he lived, he died, and he rose from the dead literally for the redemption of our bodies and the forgiveness of sins, and to rise to heaven to be at the Father's right hand in order to send the Holy Spirit throughout all of human history) -- not because we'll be damned if we don't.Yeah...and by the way...Merry Christmas. This message has been edited by Mr. Ex Nihilo, 01-03-2006 02:21 AM

Any god that would damn to hell over 50% of the world's population is evil....In addition are Catholics damned to hell or baptists? Which one is correct?Are all of the non-christian children in Afica and India that die of starvation now burning in hell?

Romans 1:18-20 describes perfectly that we all know that God exists because of what has been created. But instead, people deny His existence and give credit to apes or other man-made scenarios for the existence of creation. Paul says that man is therefore, without excuse because God has made it plain to him through His creation who He is.

God is reaching out to you on this forum to accept him, but it seems that you prefer damnation instead or you would listen to God's word in the bible. You obviously don't fear hell that much or you would choose heaven instead. Therefore, your complaints about hell have no basis.

Totally off topic nonsense. Do Not Reply to this message. Carico, if you continue to show that you are incapable of following guidelines you WILL be suspended.

This message has been edited by AdminJar, 12-28-2005 06:03 PM

Mini Ditka You are off topic.Please refer to the OP (Message 1) if the topic is unclear.

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i submitted my 'counter points' to your arrogant assertions in my original posting. you not seeing them underlines your arrogance.don't 'boil down' what i've said to your own inaccurate level of understanding.nowhere in Scripture have i found a verse that promises salvation to those who have not heard the Gospel. quite the contrary in fact.these are words you can't twist.ROMANS 1:20. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.MATTHEW 7:7-8. 'Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.'JEREMIAH 29:13. 'You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.'EPHESIANS 1:13-14. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a depost guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the praise of his glory.ROMANS 10:9-10. That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.JOHN 3:18. 'Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.'2 THESSALONIANS 2:10. and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.JOHN 6:40. 'For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.'JOHN 1:12. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.and if they don't pierce your blindfold. this is the real crunch.JOHN 14:6. Jesus answered 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'thus proving my point. Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven.and yes. we are damned if we don't.every child is born saved (MATTHEW 18:10-11), but after reaching the age of accountability must exercise his or her agency and consciously choose to remain so (ROMANS 7:9). it's the sole purpose of our lives.now mr. ex, back up your claims with Scripture.This message has been edited by REALIST, 03-19-2006 03:49 AM