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Author Topic:   Man raised back to life in Jesus' name
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Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 89 of 300 (274658)
01-01-2006 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
01-01-2006 10:57 AM


Re: Health
Faith writes:
Again, I wasn't "saying" anything. I quoted the Bible. Referred to the Bible in the case of Proverbs. Didn't give my own view of anything.
Faith, I have to confess as much confusion as Trixie. Any reasonable person would assume you provided the Bible quotes because they were congruent or supportive of your arguments. If they were for some other purpose, perhaps providing relevant background, then you need to make that clear.
Hypothetical conversation:
Person 1: Well, I think Max was being stupid.
Person 2: "Judge not that ye be not judged."
Person 1: Don't you think I should have an opinion about his behavior?
Person 2: I never said you shouldn't.
Person 1: Yes you did. You said I shouldn't judge him unless I wanted to risk judgment myself.
Person 2: No I didn't. I just quoted the Bible.
Person 1: Okay, fine, whatever. See ya.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 01-01-2006 10:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 01-01-2006 10:11 PM Admin has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 103 of 300 (274959)
01-02-2006 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
01-01-2006 10:11 PM


Re: Health
Faith writes:
Hypothetical conversation:
Person 1: Well, I think Max was being stupid.
Person 2: "Judge not that ye be not judged."
Person 1: Don't you think I should have an opinion about his behavior?
Person 2: I never said you shouldn't.
Person 1: Yes you did. You said I shouldn't judge him unless I wanted to risk judgment myself.
Person 2: No I didn't. I just quoted the Bible.
Person 1: Okay, fine, whatever. See ya.
I have NO idea how this hypothetical conversation represents anything I have said. The topic is the Bible's connection between sin and death and disease. It's there. It's not an opinion. It's there.
My hypothetical conversation was intended to illustrate the frustration inherent in dealing with contradictory behavior. "Don't judge," says Person 2. "Why shouldn't I judge?" says Person 1. "I didn't say you shouldn't," says Person 2.
Isn't that contradictory expression by Person 2 of the same nature as your conversation with Trixie? If I could paraphrase, "Follow God for better health," you said. "That's not consistent with a loving Father," replies Trixie. "I never expressed an opinion," you answer.
Sounds frustratingly contradictory to me, and that's why I commented in admin mode. It turns out that you and Trixie are doing an admirable job keeping the discussion civil and constructive, so in retrospect there was probably no need for me to say anything, but I wanted to be proactive just in case the discussion was about to spiral out of control.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 01-01-2006 10:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 01-02-2006 10:27 AM Admin has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 107 of 300 (274993)
01-02-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Faith
01-02-2006 10:27 AM


Re: Health
Faith,
It was not my intention to upset you and make you feel the victim of biased treatment, but only to keep discussion civil and constructive, and later to clarify.
Faith writes:
If I could paraphrase, "Follow God for better health," you said. "That's not consistent with a loving Father," replies Trixie. "I never expressed an opinion," you answer.
I did NOT say "Follow God for better health" Percy, I quoted JESUS telling a man He healed to "Go and sin no more" and I referenced Proverbs where people are admonished to avoid sin and practice righteousness and ill or good health is often the consequence.
I said, "If I could paraphrase..." I wasn't quoting you verbatim, and I made that clear. This is from your Message 76. It appears just after your Bible quote. It is what I was looking at when I created the paraphrase:
Faith writes:
Also, the Book of Proverbs is full of admonitions of sickness as a result of sin, and improved health is promised for obedience.
I paraphrased this as, "Follow God for better health." I was only trying to clarify through example why your claim that you were not expressing an opinion appeared self-evidently contradictory. It was information for you, not criticism or condemnation. All you needed to do was say, "Okay, let me explain..."
Yes this is my opinion ALSO, but the FIRST thing that has to be noticed is that I WAS JUST PROVIDING A CITATION, WHICH CRASHFROG EVEN NOTED, why can't you? This is what the Bible says. So that if someone is going to start arguing with me about what the Bible says they are arguing with the Bible and not with me.
Trixie can clarify if necessary, but I don't think she was taking issue with any single Bible quote, which is probably why she didn't quote anything (though she should have). I believe Trixie was taking issue with the message you take from the Bible about the nature of God. She says she finds a different God, that she sees the Bible as only a pathway to God, not the definition of God.
And second, Trixie's accusation that because I quote the Bible on one topic means I am therefore ignoring another Biblical theme is incredibly absurd and annoying.
I think you have a tendency to see slights at every turn. No one is accusing you of anything, and no one is purposefully trying to annoy you. It is the nature of discussion on these sensitive topics for everyone to feel they are being slighted and purposefully misunderstood, and some are more paranoid and volatile than others, but the Forum Guidelines are intended to help keep discussion focused on the topic. You need to exercise more self-control so that you aren't continually bursting forth publicly with your inner demons. Try putting yourself in another's place to see if any slight was really intended, and if you conclude it was then still resist striking out just because you are angered. Respond kindly, compassionately, tolerantly.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you find my answer contradictory but her insinuating irrelevant post admirable.
You're relating two things that have nothing to do with each other.
My suggestion is to just follow the Forum Guidelines, leave personal feelings out of the discussion, explain patiently what you mean, over and over again if necessary, and stop seeing malice every time there's a difference of opinion.
My other suggestion is for you to pick up the mantle of your moderatorship and become a constructive force for good here at EvC Forum.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Faith, posted 01-02-2006 10:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 01-02-2006 3:17 PM Admin has not replied

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