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Author Topic:   Nature and the fall of man
ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 247 of 300 (275704)
01-04-2006 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Faith
01-04-2006 12:48 AM


Re: God would be to blame if we were automatons
You are failing to take into the account that most Christians that subscribe to the concept of "The FALL', and the DOctrine of Original sin view God as 'Omnicient and onimpotent"
Claiming those characteristics from god leaves a logical conumdrum that is ignored by those people who claim that.
God COULD have created man with the capcity of falling, but did not. Remember, with the supposed characteristics of 'all knowing' and 'all powerful', he supposedly knows the shape of the pot before the clay is even thrown. Surely, he would know how to make the pot so it didn't shatter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 12:48 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 11:41 AM ramoss has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 250 of 300 (275753)
01-04-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Faith
01-04-2006 11:41 AM


Re: God would be to blame if we were automatons
In which case, God KNEW that there would be ultimate disobediance, and did it on purpose.
That brings up a whole different set of issues about 'the fall of man', and the doctrine of original sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 11:41 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 12:23 PM ramoss has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 255 of 300 (275819)
01-04-2006 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
01-04-2006 12:23 PM


Re: God would be to blame if we were automatons
Ok.. if that is what you think. I personally think that particular chain of logic leaves a lot to be desired.. and the implications about what it would mean if true are being totally ignored.
But, I don't accept the premise about the 'Doctrine of original sin' and 'the fall' anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 12:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 4:46 PM ramoss has not replied
 Message 257 by robinrohan, posted 01-04-2006 4:47 PM ramoss has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 261 of 300 (275840)
01-04-2006 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by robinrohan
01-04-2006 4:47 PM


Re: God would be to blame if we were automatons
Actually, that is not what my idea amounts to.
I am saying that the definitons of the majority of christians on what God is, and the definitons by the majority of Christians about what free will and the fall of man is make those concepts a contradiction. Calling
god Omincent and omnipotent, having him create man, and then having man fall from his own free will is saying man is a square peg.

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 Message 257 by robinrohan, posted 01-04-2006 4:47 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 01-04-2006 6:03 PM ramoss has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 266 of 300 (275919)
01-04-2006 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by LinearAq
01-04-2006 10:14 PM


Re: God would be to blame if we were automatons
Well, that is one of the problems of using just a line or two out of book to pick out a point. You are not quoting the line IN CONTEXT.
The Psalms of David are the story of David, supposedly written by him when he was trying to escape Saul. It records his dark despair and his ultimate victory. To take a line out of context from his darkest hour is not really dealing with the Psalms in context for which it was written.
It seems to me too many people use 'single line' quotes out of context to weave a theology. They support the first line taken out of context, with another single line or two, also taken out of context.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by LinearAq, posted 01-04-2006 10:14 PM LinearAq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by iano, posted 01-05-2006 5:03 AM ramoss has not replied

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