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Author | Topic: Did Jesus do anything original? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Karl Inactive Member |
quote: There's no mention of this host when Herod started his campaign of slaughter. Instead, the Holy Family had to scarper to Egypt. How exactly do you think Satan would have "destroyed" this infant?
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Maybe it was the captain of the host who instructed Joseph to take his family and flee to Egypt? Sometimes that's the best strategy is to to get out of the enemies territory.
There are many ways satan could have destroyed this infant, I don't even doubt that he tried. What do you think prompted Herod to take the course of action he did? ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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Karl Inactive Member |
I would have thought the fear of being deposed by a grass roots movement centred around a perceived Messiah.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
quote: Hi zipzip, Thanks for taking the time to reply. The question was did Jesus do or say anything ORIGINAL? The examples you provided are not original to Jesus, they have all been claimed by other Gods, or their followers, long before Jesus was born as a man. 1. Many Greek myths tell of fulfilled prophecies, or one from the Old testament, such as Jael proves that Jesus wasn't the first person to fulfill a prophecy. 2. Virgin births are ten a penny pre-jesus, Buddha, Attis and Tammuz are other examples, I think even Alexander the Great was credited with a virgin birth as well. 3. This was taught by gautama Buddha 600 years before anyone knew anything about Jesus. 4. This is a basic claim by many Gods, 3000 years before Jesus came to earth the Hindus claimed that Brahman created the universe. 5. Much the same as answer to 4, these are basic attributes of Gods. Krishna performed many miracles. for example, one night when there was a full moon full moon sixteen hundred gopis assembled, and the miracle of Krishna was performed when he appeared as a separate Krishna to each gopi, and all of them danced with their beloved Lord at one and the same time. 6. Again saviour Gods are ten a penny pre-Jesus days, read the stories of Osiris, Dionysius, Bel, and Mithra. 7. There are numerous stories of resurrected Gods, Mithra is an example of this again 400 years before Jesus claimed it. Even Pythagoras was believed to have risen from the dead. 8. All resurrected gods claim this, Krisna is still appearing to his follwers in the avatar of Sai Baba (not all his followers claim this though). 9. This is also claimed by a much earlier source, the Hindu Trinity (Bramah, Shiva and Vishnu, all one God in three forms)goes back thousands of years before Christ. So we are really looking at Jesus copying things that other people or gods done long before him. There must be something original somewhere in his life surely!Then again maybe not. Best Wishes. Brian. ------------------Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing! [This message has been edited by Brian Johnston, 12-18-2002]
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Not sure about this one it's a guess, but did anyone else teach the reverse kingdom idea. The idea that king is servant.
------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5871 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
A Jewish Che Guevara or Agusto Sandino?
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zipzip Inactive Member |
The basis of your question was if the Gospels were in fact true, what did Jesus do that was original.
If the Gospels are true, Jesus really did all these things in actual fact, unlike myth -- that is original and I stand by my post.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
quote: Amen. I will stand by that post with you. ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
quote: The point I am making is this. We didnt know that Jesus had done any of these things until he claimed them 2000 years ago. However, ALL these claims had been made before, long before Jesus was born on Earth as a man. He still didn't do or say anything that hadnt been said or done before. Jesus didnt come up with some mind blowing ideas, man had already thought them all up long before Jesus revealed himself to mankind. SO the FACTS remain Jesus was NOT the first person to fulfill a prophecy.Jesus was NOT the first virgin birth Jesus was NOT the first person to teach reverse social order Jesus was NOT the first person to claim to be God and participate in the creation of the universe. Jesus was not the first person to have supernatural and healing powers Jesus was not the first 'Saviour' God Jesus was not the first person to rise from the dead Jesus was not the first person to appear after his death to his followers. Jesus is not the first person to claim to be sat at God's right hand. All these have been claimed earlier by many many faiths, whether Jesus actually did these things is neither here nor there, the fact remains he did not come up with any original ideas. Look at it this way, if you asked anyone in Palestine 3000 years ago who created the universe you would have got many different answers and Jesus would NOT have been one of them. It was only after he was born that people knew about him and the NT has nothing in it (re Jesus) that hasnt been said and done before ------------------Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
who preached reverse "social order" before Jesus?
Question 2 why is there so many versions of this, why do so many people believe? How come just about every culture knows of some form of God? ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: If..... you argument is "IF...." ? If the Gospels were not true, then Jesus didn't really do all these things. Ooops! Stalemate. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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shilohproject Inactive Member |
John, et al,
For you, would the action/statement have to be "original" to be important, or could the context of a tried-and-true expression make it valuable and meaningful in a way that sets it apart from any previous example? -Shiloh
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John Inactive Member |
quote: A statement wouldn't have to be original to be important. It would have to be original to set the religion apart from all others in a meaningful way. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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shilohproject Inactive Member |
quote: John,Perhaps you have accidentally brushed up against one of my foundational beliefs: It is the commonalities of the faithful that give us the best chance to see the nature God, regardless of their "religion," denomination, place of worship, where they face during prayer, how they see infant baptism or communion or prayer rags or poverty, etc. I doubt that God is unable to speak Chinese. -Shiloh
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Religion is certainly a repository of culture, philosophy, and other similar things. As such, studying and comparing religions is a useful endeavor. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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