Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,808 Year: 3,065/9,624 Month: 910/1,588 Week: 93/223 Day: 4/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Another Test for Intelligent Design Proponents
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 76 of 151 (275654)
01-04-2006 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Parasomnium
01-04-2006 2:47 AM


Re: Prophex, do your homework first
If he is goign to read all that, he also should read the Dover PA decision by Judge Jones, in specifically the sections tht dealt with the
testemony under oath from Behe and Dembski.
That was such a precise and LEGAL arguement that I bet teh Discovery Institute will evendually abandon trying to 'teach about I.D., but rather fall back to 'TEach the controversy'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2006 2:47 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2006 8:46 AM ramoss has not replied
 Message 78 by jar, posted 01-04-2006 10:45 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 77 of 151 (275657)
01-04-2006 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by ramoss
01-04-2006 8:25 AM


Re: Prophex, do your homework first
ramoss writes:
he also should read [...]
For some reason I doubt he'll even read the first paragraph of the Wedge Document. On the other hand, if he reads the previous sentence of this message, he might feel sufficiently challenged to make it through the second paragraph of that document.
Anyway, even if he first acquaints himself with only the ID side of the matter, that would be a boon. If we have to talk him out of something, he at least needs to understand what he is being talked out of.

Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ramoss, posted 01-04-2006 8:25 AM ramoss has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 78 of 151 (275718)
01-04-2006 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by ramoss
01-04-2006 8:25 AM


Discover Institute?
That was such a precise and LEGAL arguement that I bet teh Discovery Institute will evendually abandon trying to 'teach about I.D., but rather fall back to 'TEach the controversy'.
Nah, their new direction is "Discover the Controversy" and AIG is moving towards "Create the Controversy".

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ramoss, posted 01-04-2006 8:25 AM ramoss has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 151 (276231)
01-05-2006 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Parasomnium
01-04-2006 2:47 AM


A seeming athiest tell me that I don't know of creation. That's funny.
The science is the unimportant part of Creation. It doesn't even matter. I've told you guys about it all before.

"The old man cries in the sorrow of eternity." Van Gogh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2006 2:47 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by NosyNed, posted 01-05-2006 9:42 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 81 by Parasomnium, posted 01-06-2006 7:03 AM joshua221 has replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 80 of 151 (276233)
01-05-2006 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by joshua221
01-05-2006 9:32 PM


If it doesn't matter .....
The science is the unimportant part of Creation. It doesn't even matter. I've told you guys about it all before.
So why do you bother to discuss it. Why would you care about ID? -- Which is trying to be "scientific". Why not just leave us poor deluded fools to our unimportant little games? The little games which have transformed the world (for good and ill) in less than 5 centuries after millenia of religious belief left the world more or less unchanged from one century to the next.
A seeming athiest tell me that I don't know of creation. That's funny.
But he is mentioning the ID movement to you. The one that believes that things evolve over millions of years; the one that believes humans and other extant apes are related. Do you then agree with them? That would be surprising. If you don't agree then perhaps you should learn more about it.
The ID movement has the same political goals as YEC creationists but what they accept as true is anathema to the YEC creationists and even to some OEC creationists.
Maybe there is no problem and you agree with the main core of the ID movement. Do you?
This message has been edited by NosyNed, 01-05-2006 09:45 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by joshua221, posted 01-05-2006 9:32 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 1:02 AM NosyNed has not replied
 Message 112 by inkorrekt, posted 02-05-2006 7:46 PM NosyNed has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 81 of 151 (276294)
01-06-2006 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by joshua221
01-05-2006 9:32 PM


A Sadly Funny Affair
prophex writes:
A seeming athiest tell me that I don't know of creation. That's funny.
Well, it would be, if it weren't actually so sad. One thing I'll say for you, Prophex: you are making it really easy for me to criticize your posts, because here you are, doing it yet again.
The prominent ID-ers I mentioned (Behe/Dembski et al.) have gone out of their way to maintain that ID is indeed science, all the while carefully avoiding any association with creationism. And then, along comes Prophex, in a thread about intelligent design, saying that the Intelligent Designer is in fact the Christian God of creationism.
On second thought I'll concede it is both sad and funny. The sad part is your remarkable failure to grasp what this is all about. The funny part is that you're actually right about the fact that ID is creationism. It's just that you're not supposed to be saying it out loud.
This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 06-Jan-2006 01:23 PM

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by joshua221, posted 01-05-2006 9:32 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 1:06 AM Parasomnium has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 82 of 151 (276307)
01-06-2006 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Parasomnium
12-22-2005 7:36 AM


Neither one
Neither one would indicate if it was designed or not.
The reason being is that one could design something to fall into a random position.
One of the things I do is install boilers for a living. I have seen neat boiler installations that could represent the drawing on the left, and other spagetti installations that represent the drawing on the right. Both of them may work just fine, or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Parasomnium, posted 12-22-2005 7:36 AM Parasomnium has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 151 (277030)
01-08-2006 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by NosyNed
01-05-2006 9:42 PM


Re: If it doesn't matter .....
I don't think that you can prove God's existance scientifically. With reason, yes, with common sense, certainly. Knowing God is there, isn't really something that is meant to be debated about, it's a given.
quote:
The little games which have transformed the world (for good and ill) in less than 5 centuries after millenia of religious belief left the world more or less unchanged from one century to the next.
It's not even about religious belief, it's about God. It's about nothing else other than truth, and I find myself unable to express God.
You can keep your little games.

"The old man cries in the sorrow of eternity." Van Gogh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by NosyNed, posted 01-05-2006 9:42 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-08-2006 3:48 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 151 (277032)
01-08-2006 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Parasomnium
01-06-2006 7:03 AM


b=b==b=bb=b
quote:
And then, along comes Prophex, in a thread about intelligent design, saying that the Intelligent Designer is in fact the Christian God of creationism.
I don't really know if I said that, but the main point was that Intelligent Design does not need science to be true, and that scientific evidence means nothing in the eyes of God, and those who realize that there is more to life than this earthly plight.

"The old man cries in the sorrow of eternity." Van Gogh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Parasomnium, posted 01-06-2006 7:03 AM Parasomnium has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by crashfrog, posted 01-08-2006 1:26 AM joshua221 has replied
 Message 88 by Parasomnium, posted 01-08-2006 5:03 AM joshua221 has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 85 of 151 (277038)
01-08-2006 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by joshua221
01-08-2006 1:06 AM


Re: b=b==b=bb=b
I don't really know if I said that, but the main point was that Intelligent Design does not need science to be true, and that scientific evidence means nothing in the eyes of God, and those who realize that there is more to life than this earthly plight.
Maybe God is a little more appreciative of the collossal effort and sacrifice generally required for scientific achievement than you are?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 1:06 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 2:02 AM crashfrog has replied

  
joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 151 (277052)
01-08-2006 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by crashfrog
01-08-2006 1:26 AM


Re: b=b==b=bb=b
Show me statistics that show that the majority of scientists are not living well, and actually have to time to think about DNA extractions. I would bet you that the majority of scientists like what they do, and sacrifice nothing to earn a large income to study physis.
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-08-2006 02:02 AM
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 01-08-2006 12:29 AM
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-08-2006 12:22 PM

"The old man cries in the sorrow of eternity." Van Gogh

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by crashfrog, posted 01-08-2006 1:26 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by nator, posted 01-08-2006 8:46 AM joshua221 has replied
 Message 90 by Ben!, posted 01-08-2006 11:39 AM joshua221 has replied
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 01-08-2006 11:52 AM joshua221 has not replied
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 01-08-2006 12:36 PM joshua221 has not replied

  
Funkaloyd
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 151 (277072)
01-08-2006 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by joshua221
01-08-2006 1:02 AM


Re: If it doesn't matter .....
prophex writes:
I don't think that you can prove God's existance scientifically.
Then you have a beef with ID, knowingly or not. Maybe in future you'd consider helping us evos with our deadly traps?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 1:02 AM joshua221 has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 88 of 151 (277079)
01-08-2006 5:03 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by joshua221
01-08-2006 1:06 AM


My final comment to Prophex on this
prophex writes:
I don't really know if I said that {that the Intelligent Designer is the Christian God of creationism, P.}
Oh, you said it all right: I showed you picture of things in nature that aren't really such fine examples of intelligent design - the pictures in post 70 - and asked you if intelligent design could explain them. You answered:
Corruption
Original Sin
God's World Changed
When I replied that Intelligent Design isn't religion, that it was instead supposed to be science, you answered:
God is beyond science, how could it be about science?
Maybe you never literally said "the Intelligent Designer is the Christian God of creationism", but you certainly implied it very clearly.
[...] the main point was that Intelligent Design does not need science to be true
You prove once more that you don't understand what the people of the intelligent design movement - whose side you are supposedly on - are actually saying. You are doing them a disservice. Not that I mind, though, such cases of friendly fire are usually welcomed from the opposite side.
In any case, to conclude our exchange, the important thing is not that we disagree about whether or not there is an Intelligent Designer, but that I pointed out to you the fact that you and the intelligent design movement are in disagreement, apparently, on what can be said openly about the nature of the intelligent designer.
You are welcome to comment, but I will leave it at this.
This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-Jan-2006 05:00 PM

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 1:06 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 12:24 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 89 of 151 (277089)
01-08-2006 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by joshua221
01-08-2006 2:02 AM


Re: b=b==b=bb=b
quote:
Show me statistics that show that the majority of scientists are not living well, and actually have to time to think about DNA extractions.
Well, they are paid to think about these kinds of things, so of course they "have time" to do so.
Would you criticize a welder for "having time to think about welding"?
quote:
I would bet you that the majority of scientists like what they do, and sacrifice nothing to earn a large income to study physics.
Spoken like a kid who is still in high school and has never had to work for a living, or even work very hard academically.
Take it from me, the wife of a very bright man who just defended his PhD.
There are many, many sacrifices.
Profound, painful ones that you are not grown up enough to understand, apparently.
Oh, and what do you consider a "large income"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 2:02 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 12:27 PM nator has replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 90 of 151 (277128)
01-08-2006 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by joshua221
01-08-2006 2:02 AM


Re: b=b==b=bb=b
I would bet you that the majority of scientists like what they do, and sacrifice nothing to earn a large income to study physics.
AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
I need some extra money, since I'm so friggin' poor from being involved in science. So all I can say is... HOW MUCH YOU WANNA BET? I NEED WHATEVER YOU CAN PROVIDE BUDDY BOY.
I'm actually leaning towards getting out. Too little money, too much politics, so hard to be able to do what you want. It's been frustrating!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 2:02 AM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by joshua221, posted 01-08-2006 12:37 PM Ben! has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024