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Author | Topic: Church spreading aids | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
gene90 Member (Idle past 3850 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
quote: This is the unbending part I guess. AIDS is avoidable. If they won't avoid it, there's nothing I or anybody else here can do.
quote: Then it's his fault and she'll get the disease. And by the way, I do suspect that most of Africa's problem stems from male misbehavior.
quote: Yes. I've always been accused of being snobby and condescending. This is nothing new, only the group accusing me of being snobby and condescending is different. And by the way, I think it is because I am rather arrogant sometimes.
quote: They have changed towards you and your ilk because of the criticism I suddenly seem to be getting all the time, especially regarding my choice of religion.
quote: There may be some truth to that claim. I'm always outnumbered now and I have never been able to hold up a decent debate when outnumbered. I've lost debates to YECs that way in other forums, not because I couldn't outdo their arguments but because I was put into a rush to keep up and got very sloppy. Plus I can't debate at all once I lose my cool. Also, I seem to be up against more experienced and more skillful opposition than the average, newcomer YEC that stumbles in here. So it's not that my debate style is necessarily getting worse it could just mean that (1) I'm under more pressure (2) the opposition is stronger and (3) you're paying attention to my arguments for the first time.
quote: I'm not going to say that they deserve anything. Disease doesn't work like that. It has a random aspect to it. A lot of people are suffering who did nothing wrong to contract the disease. And then you have the children orphaned by the disease. I am however saying that this epidemic could be brought under control if people were more monogamous and, as you suggested, better educated. Behavior still plays a huge part in this epidemic. [This message has been edited by gene90, 12-17-2002]
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metatron Inactive Member |
This is a copy of an e-mail sent out by planned parenthood.
.................................. The Fifth Asia and Pacific Population Conference closed today with a resounding victory for reproductive health and rights. Despite the heavy handed tactics of the U.S. delegation, Asia-Pacific countries rejected the Bush Administration's anti-health and anti-women agenda. In an effort to advance their agenda to overturn laws and policies that protect reproductive freedom, the Bush Administration made explicit their position that life begins at conception, attempting to pave the way for eliminating access to abortion in the U.S. and around the world. U.S. proposals to water down sex education, promote abstinence until marriage as the centerpiece of HIV/AIDS prevention efforts, and undermine efforts to prevent unsafe abortions and its consequences were met with resounding opposition. Throughout the week, senior officials from countries as diverse as India, Pakistan, China, Turkey, Fiji, New Zealand, Iran, Indonesia and the Philippines spoke forcefully against the Bush Administration. In the end, every nation spoke one-by-one opposing each of the Bush Administration's anti-health proposals and stood united in their support of reproductive health and rights for the world's citizens. For more information read Planned Parenthood's press release orYahoo's press release. Attention Required! | Cloudflare..................................................... Isn't america the "civilized" one?. [This message has been edited by Metatron, 12-18-2002]
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Jovianboy Guest |
quote: I'm sorry, I know I'm not a member(yet), but I can't let this one slide. If what Metatron says is true (and it may well be), it is in no way "definative proof" of the non-existance of god. I cannot think of a worse ad-hominem attack on theism. This reminds me of (some) creationists who try to use the fact that neo-Darwinian theory was perverted by the Nazi party in its attack on "lesser races", as proof that evolution is immoral, and therefore invalid. Ridiculous. The actions of some followers of a certain belief system or theory are in no way relevant to whether or not that belief system reflects reality. In my opinion, there most probably isn't a god. But illogical attacks do not advance the argument of the atheist, any more than they advance the argument of the theist. I'm still in two minds about joining this forum. Creationism appalls me as a perverse distortion of science and religion. I am an atheist with a Christian upbringing, and dispite my disbelief, I have often been surrounded by Christian people very dear to me (including my mother who is a deacon with the Anglican church). These are level-headed Christians, people who see the Old Testament for the (religiously relevant) allegory that it is. The vast majority of them oppose the creationist cult - not just becuase it's an attack on science, but also because it's a major diservice to mainstream Christianity. But I get the feeling that many people here think that "Christian equals creationist". This is disappointing, because I always believed that the false dichotomy that says "evolutionists are never Christians" and "Christians are never evolutionists" was an idiotic notion held only in the minds of the creationists (to simplify their world-view, as they are so wont to do). But could it be so with some Evolutionists as well? Would many posters on both sides be happier if the forum were renamed: "Christianity versus Evolution"? Hmm... JB
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5899 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
JB:
In defense of this particular BB, if you look around a bit I think you will find that there are quite a few on the evo side who are Christians, beginning with the almighty Admin himself. Few posters on the evo side make the error of conflating "Christian" with "creationist". We also have several Moslems on either side of the divide - one evo, one died-in-the-wool creationist, one on the fence, and one I-have-no-idea-but-it's-pretty-strange. Also, the moderating on this board is some of the fairest I have seen anywhere on the 'net. Having said that, there ARE posters on the evo side who have significant axes to grind with Christianity itself. And there are others who, while questioning Christianity and/or other religious beliefs, do so primarily because it's an interesting exercise. They're fairly easy to identify. We also get the random drive-by "eviluyton is bad cuz God sayd so in the bible" Christians. It is, after all, a public board. I hope you choose to register and stick around. It is one of the more interesting boards I've discovered dealing with the evo-cre debate. Fresh input is always valuable.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Looking at the title of this thread I was really hit by something. You would think the church was running around with needles containing the virus poking every African they could possibly get.
The church is not spreading the virus, the people are spreading the virus by the behaviour and lifestyle they choose. If you don't like it go do something about it. What are you doing for those suffering in Africa? How many "toys" do you have? Take the plank out of your own eye before you go chasing after someone elses speck. I see this kind of thing all the time, the church is doing this God does that. Really? Think about who is doing what.------------------ Saved by an incredible Grace. [This message has been edited by funkmasterfreaky, 12-20-2002]
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John Inactive Member |
quote: And the RCC is opposing the only hope most of those people have. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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metatron Inactive Member |
If you don't like it go do something about it. What are you doing for those suffering in Africa? How many "toys" do you have? Take the plank out of your own eye before you go chasing after someone elses speck.
Military peacekeeping service keeping different religious factions away from each others throats has been my contribution. Whats yours?.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Military peacekeeping service keeping different religious factions away from each others throats has been my contribution. Whats yours?. You guys do peace keeping eh? I thought only Canada sent peace keepers. I love this idea of helping out, take your guns into their country and point them at peoples heads. Who's killing who? If a situation is tense the best idea is to bring in more weapons, and trained killers? I pray for the world. *bracing for mockery* that's my contribution, I'm convinced it's much more effective than holding a gun to someones head. Oh btw, don't give me this "war is religions fault" crap, what a weak cop out, economics has more to do with this than anything. ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5899 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Just out of curiosity, Funk, your reply had what to do with my post?
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Sorry Quetzal it didn't have anything to do with your post. I was just looking through the topic list, and was struck with what the title of this thread seemed to be suggesting.
------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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Quetzal Member (Idle past 5899 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
quote:Okay. Just a bit confused there. BTW: I agreed with your post, earlier in the thread, which was what was even more confusing. Unfortunately, dogma (in this case the RCC's unbending, midieval, extra-biblical stance on prophylactics) appears to be winning out over reason in this particular instance, however. There is no one single solution to Africa's AIDS pandemic - like so many other things, it will require multiple approaches to solve. The RCC's position is not helpful, and might even be harmful. I think that's what underlies the basic disagreement you see on this thread.
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metatron Inactive Member |
Oh btw, don't give me this "war is religions fault" crap, what a weak cop out, economics has more to do with this than anything.
[/B][/QUOTE] So when muslims fill mass graves with christians in bosnia its "economic" is it. And when christians ethnically cleanse an area thats "economic" too. The israeli's destroying palestinian settlements whilst building their own in defiance of un resolutions is "economic". The attack on the world trade centre certainly had an economic effect but that was a side effect of attacking an american symbol on american soil. Religion is the single greatest cause of pain and suffering the world has ever known. I'll tell you what is "economic" the behavior of the vatican bank for the last few hundred years.
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Look, I'm not trying to say that fanatic religious groups have not been responsible for wars past and present. I am however tired of the statement that religion is the cause of war. Do you truly believe there would be no war if there was no religion? People fight over all sorts of things not just religion.
I, also believe the vatican to be a crooked economics based organization. Please refrain from connecting me or what I believe to the vatican, it's a misrepresentation. Maybe we should agree to disagree on this war point, as this thread is about what the CATHOLIC church is doing in Africa. I apologize for running this thread off topic. ------------------Saved by an incredible Grace.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: You are right. People would still be fighting even in the absense of religion. Religion does set itself up as a mechanism for preventing such things. You know, a force for peace and love and such like. But that simply isn't true. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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fozzi Guest |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Metatron:
[B]So when muslims fill mass graves with christians in bosnia its "economic" is it. And when christians ethnically cleanse an area thats "economic" too. The israeli's destroying palestinian settlements whilst building their own in defiance of un resolutions is "economic".[B][/QUOTE] Yep it is, the basic problem of economics is "limited resources infinite wants." all those examples are one group taking the resources from another, sure they are religious groups, but you see the same thing through history with secular nations and empires, gangs and their "turf" etc... Anytime a group of people start identifying themselves in a way that excludes other groups the possibility of war to acquire more of the finite resources available is possible (and in many cases highly likely).... Religions do often foster this sort of group identity but then so do sports teams, geographic regions, nations etc.....
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