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Author Topic:   the modern Saduccees?
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 4 of 57 (277941)
01-10-2006 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
01-10-2006 11:03 PM


That seems to imply that it had nothing to do with there philosophical approach (the Pharisees and Sadducees approached learning in different ways) but rather their actions, their behavior.
It looks like John was refering to ALL of the priestly class
I have to see things very similiar to jar's view in this regard.
Jesus equally condemned the Saduccees and the Pharisees.
In fact in Jesus, the Pharisees and the Saduccees had a common enemy. They normally would have been at odds with each other.
Jesus causes enemies of one another to unite together to fight a common threat. One time the opposing enemies came to question Jesus thinking that if He took sides one way or the other He would be condemned.
But of course He was too wise to be caught in such a trap.

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 15 of 57 (278009)
01-11-2006 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
01-11-2006 1:59 AM


Re: Herodians
Randman,
. It's not that there is nothing good about the Saduccees, but that along with some good things, like morals, comes along something Jesus feels is extremely dangerous, the denigration of the need and reality of faith.
I understand you.
I also was taught that the Saduccees were the ancient Modernists.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-11-2006 07:18 AM

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 33 of 57 (278227)
01-11-2006 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ramoss
01-11-2006 10:06 AM


Re: Herodians
Ramoss,
Condsidering that the Sadducee's were older than the Pharisees , calling them 'modernists' is amusing.
It should not be so amusing. Every age has its modern fashion.
The Saducees were skeptical of the things written in the Hebrew Bible. Resurrection was a joke to them. They did not believe in spirits.
They considered themselves to be more down to earth and pragmatic. The miraculous things written in the Hebrew Scriptures were not the everyday occurences of common folk. So, yes, they were the ancient modernists.
They would remind us of today's Scientologist perhaps much more than today's Amish.

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 47 of 57 (279381)
01-16-2006 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by ramoss
01-12-2006 9:02 PM


Re: Herodians
Yes they were. Ecclesiatics is skeptical about a ressurection too.
For that matter, in the first 39 books of the tanakh, resurrection was only hinted at 3 times.. Two of those references are in Isaiah, and one is at the end of the book of Daniel. Altought Eziekel does mention it, it is meant metaphorically. Resurrection is not mentioned at all in the Torah, so it is a later introduction in to the Jewish religion, rather than an older one.
Resurrection is also hinted at in Genesis according to a certain rabbinical student who hated the Christian church but latter became a disciple. (But we won't hold that against him).
Paul, (formerly Saul the Pharisee from Tarsus), wrote that when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac he expected that God would raise Isaac from the dead.
Here is where Paul wrote that (this is of my opinion that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews, which states no explicit authoriship):
"By faith Abraham, being tested, offered up Isaac: indeed he who gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten, of whom it was said, 'In Isaac shall your seed be called'; Counting that God was able to raise men even from the dead, from which he received him back in figure" (Hebrews 11:17-19)
The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews here claims that Abraham in Genesis offered up Isaac believing in the God of resurrection.
But is this just a man's wild opinion? Is there anything in Genesis that may supply more evidence for this view? I beleive the answer is yes indeed.
Genesis 22:4,5 says:
"On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar. And Abraham said to his young men, Stay here with the donkey; and I and the boy [Isaac] will go over there, and we will worship and then return to you"
Abraham, knowing that he had to kill Isaac, thought that he and Isaac would return after the sacrifice to the young men staying with the donkey. He expected that the slain Isaac, according to God's command, would be resurrected and return with his father from the sacrifice.
And I can't resist adding that the Bible specifies that this expectation was voiced by Abraham, you guessed it, " On the third day" proving once again that Jesus Christ (in His death and resurrection) is the centrality of the entire divine revelation of the Bible.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:03 AM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:04 AM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:05 AM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:06 AM

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