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Author Topic:   Another Socialist Victory in South America
mick
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 8 of 83 (280044)
01-19-2006 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
01-17-2006 1:30 AM


So what is it now:
Lula in Brazil
Chavez in Venezuela
Morales in Bolivia
Bachelet in Chile
I wonder if something big is happening or if it's just a coincidence similar to the one where supposedly social democratic governments swept into power in Europe a few years back. The new wave of the left didn't last long in Europe but these leaders from the Americas look like they have a little more conviction.
Mick
This message has been edited by mick, 01-19-2006 05:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 01-17-2006 1:30 AM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 01-19-2006 4:11 PM mick has replied
 Message 11 by randman, posted 01-19-2006 5:02 PM mick has replied

  
mick
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 10 of 83 (280052)
01-19-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Chiroptera
01-19-2006 4:11 PM


chiroptera writes:
Maybe the "new wave of left" in Europe couldn't figure out how to maintain the high material standard of living within Europe without continued exploitation of the Third World (as well as unfavored groups within the European countries, usually imported from the Third World or Eastern Europe). Meanwhile, it is the people of Latin America that are among the ones being exploited.
Yep, I'd agree with that, Chiroptera. They weren't quite left enough (and certainly didn't have the popular support) to say "time to tighten our belts to help folks in the third world".
In fact its notable how the third world is still always discussed in terms of charity (debt relief, etc) rather than justice (voting rights in the UN, living wages, etc)
Perhaps the southern countries hope to change that.
Mick
This message has been edited by mick, 01-19-2006 05:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Chiroptera, posted 01-19-2006 4:11 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Chiroptera, posted 01-19-2006 5:45 PM mick has replied

  
mick
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 13 of 83 (280414)
01-20-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by randman
01-19-2006 5:02 PM


Re: poverty
fuck! i kind of agree with you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by randman, posted 01-19-2006 5:02 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2006 2:13 PM mick has not replied
 Message 17 by randman, posted 01-23-2006 12:44 AM mick has not replied

  
mick
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 14 of 83 (280415)
01-20-2006 9:27 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Chiroptera
01-19-2006 5:45 PM


Chiroptera writes:
A more positive scenario (and relevant to the topic to this thread) is if socialist leaders of the Third World do succeed in diverting increasing amounts of the resources of their countries to improving the lives of their peoples. This would drive the prices of commodities in the West upwards; I suppose that Western leaders could use the worsening living standards that would result to justify overt and covert war against the "tyrants and dictators" of the Third World; more optimistically, maybe as living standards decrease in the West, the Europeans and North Americans would come to realize that they actually share some interests with the impoverished of the world rather than their own rulers.
Yes, but I think that process could be helped considerably by people in the developed countries. Because it won't be easy for many people to sacrafice their lifestyles.
I have always found that people with little at stake in the current set-up are most open to the idea of third world emancipation. I mean people who do not own property, people who don't own shares, people with no savings. These people really don't have that much to lose by central american living standards rising. I mean I am a 27 year old who doesn't own a house, doesn't own a car, doesn't own shares, has 100 pounds in the bank, and debts of about 10,000 pounds. I doubt that my wellbeing would be affected very much by Venezuelans getting a wage increase! Perhaps we just need to wait for the US economy to screw up, so more people are in my position.
Mick
in edit:
and I'm starting to go bald!
This message has been edited by mick, 01-20-2006 09:32 PM
This message has been edited by mick, 01-20-2006 09:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Chiroptera, posted 01-19-2006 5:45 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by nwr, posted 01-20-2006 9:56 PM mick has not replied

  
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