Another Socialist Victory in South America

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The new wave of the left didn't last long in Europe but these leaders from the Americas look like they have a little more conviction.

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Maybe the "new wave of left" in Europe couldn't figure out how to maintain the high material standard of living within Europe without continued exploitation of the Third World (as well as unfavored groups within the European countries, usually imported from the Third World or Eastern Europe). Meanwhile, it is the people of Latin America that are among the ones being exploited.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Hi, mick.

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They weren't quite left enough (and certainly didn't have the popular support) to say "time to tighten our belts to help folks in the third world".

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It may be too much to expect those who are very well-off materially to embrace a more equitable distribution of resources. Not that people are consciously greedy, but is seems to be too easy for individuals to sincerely believe in the justifications for policies that benefit them. While undoubtably exploited, I suspect that the working classes and poverty classes of the West probably understand that they are inconceivably wealthy by historical standards (and compared to most of the world's population).Sort of like imperial power -- I can't think of any imperial power that voluntarily relinquished power in the interests of a more democratic and equitable world order.If the West ever embraces socialism, it will be when the West is no longer so wealthy and the ruling elites feel they must renege on their unspoken agreement to share a small fraction of world's resources with the middle and working classes of their nations. This could happen, I suppose, when the over-extended US economy finally collapses, or due to the imminent ecological collapse.A more positive scenario (and relevant to the topic to this thread) is if socialist leaders of the Third World do succeed in diverting increasing amounts of the resources of their countries to improving the lives of their peoples. This would drive the prices of commodities in the West upwards; I suppose that Western leaders could use the worsening living standards that would result to justify overt and covert war against the "tyrants and dictators" of the Third World; more optimistically, maybe as living standards decrease in the West, the Europeans and North Americans would come to realize that they actually share some interests with the impoverished of the world rather than their own rulers.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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For instance, the original consolidation of power around the government that is requried for actual socialism to be put into to place often allows the proposed enlightened leader to take control and steer his or her country into the direction of too much government power that cannot be reversed.

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Except for those forms of socialism that involve less government power, decentralization, and grass roots involvement.-quoteOnly a few weeks in office, Morales has already started to make several moves that are both radical and will only result in damage to Bolivia.[/quote]If you cannot understand why a Latin American government would be distrustful of the military establishment, especially those elements that cooperate with the US military establishment, then you must be unfamiliar with the history of the region.At any rate, it sounds as if the Bolivian government has reached the very sensible conclusion that they have much more important priorities than being foot soldiers in that North American propaganda campaign that we call "the War on Drugs".

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Many of the 'evos' here, myself included, have had a long period of university education or indeed are still in academia, so this may be one reason that many of us skew to the left.

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Well, that may be true in general; however, I switched from right to left when I was still in high school. Anecdotal, so make of it what you will.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Despite the fact that Evo Morales has said that he doesn't want to steer Bolivia into the direction of Cuban-style socialism, he has been spending as much time as possible lately trying to better relations with Venezuela (particularly just Chavez) and moving towards what that country is doing.

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Since Chavez is making a great deal of progress in improving the lives of the Venezuelan people, this is not a bad thing.-

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I said before that if Evo wanted to take real power as Castro did, (wait forget Castro, Lenin) his only obstacle would be the military. Not any more.

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Another interpretation is that if Evo wanted to protect the democratic processes in Bolivia then he would do well to remove those potentially hostile to democracy and remake the military into one that is subservient to the civilian government.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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It must vary by institution....

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That could be. In most of the institutions with which I have been associated (an admittedly very small number of the total), science majors were required to only take a few electives in social sciences and humanities -- usually taken care of in the first couple of years. And most of the humanities and social science majors were only required to take a few elective courses in the natural sciences. In either case, the courses designed to meet the general degree elective requirements were usually pretty watered down.Maybe it's still different at private institutions.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt