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Author
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Topic: Biblical Long Term Solution To The Following Diseases
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 1 of 111 (280376)
01-20-2006 6:51 PM
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Aids Genital Herpes Syphilis Gonorrhea Hepatitis B Human Herpes Virus 8 (HHV-8) Biblical Solution = Abstinence from adultery, fornication and sodomy. Is this medically scientific? This purpose of this thread is not to preach morality, but to examine the medical scientific aspects of these Biblical inhibitions relative to the above stated diseases of humanity, given that practitioners often advocate various abstinences in treatment and prevention of diseases. (promoted from Biblical Long Term Solution To The Following Diseases by AdminNWR)
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Think Long Term As Per Thread Title
Wounded King writes: Does abstaining from sexual activity or limiting ones activity to only one partner prevent, or at least greatly reduce, the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease? Yes, obviously, because they are sexually transmitted diseases. Even if everyone were to be abstinent or monogamous there might still be some spread of some of these diseases by non sexual exchanges of bodily fluids such as medical blood contamination, sharing of needles during intravenous drug use. Widespread adoption of abstinence and monogamy would certainly greatly reduce the spread of these diseases. 1. So can we assume by this statement that you agree that the long term Biblical solution is medically scientific? 2. Would you agree that the small percentage of nonsexual causes of SDIs would also decrease if more were to abstain from the three listed practices?
WK writes: I don't think there is any need to isolate sodomy in particular, it may increase the risk of infection to a degree but if one is either abstinent or in a monogamous relationship then the type of sexual activity indulged in shouldn't matter a dickie bird. But I didn't isolate sodomy. I included it in the list of three sexual practices.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2 by Wounded King, posted 01-20-2006 7:02 PM | | Wounded King has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 10 of 111 (280409)
01-20-2006 9:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by jar
01-20-2006 7:10 PM
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jar writes: IMHO it is simply yet another example of people reaching to find imaginary support for a weak and baseless faith. Off topic. This thread is to discuss/debate the medically scientific merits of the OP proposition. It is not a discussion of faith aspects of the Bible.
jar writes: Herpes and Hepatitis can also be transmitted by other means such as kissing. Aids can be transmitted through things such as contact with blood, IV, blood transfusion. 1. The overall percentage of SDIs is relatively very small by these means of infection. 2. The infectious bacteria of SDIs are relatively delicate. 3. Can we agree that the more who abstain from the three listed practices, the less the incidence from all causes on the long haul, including nonsexual causes? If not, why not?
jar writes: Furthermore, there were also many requirements in the Bible that we would consider today as incouraging promiscuity such as the mandate for the surviving brother to marry his brothers widow. Finally, abstinence is only a factor even in Christian or Judaic communities before marriage and so does nothing to limit transmittal after marriage. 1. It is logical that if the deceased husband of the surviving widow abstained from the three practices the chance of the brother contacting SDI would be minimal. 2. Strawman: This topic is not pertaining to cultures, race or religious belief. It pertains to all cultures, races and religions conglomerate. Those cultures which are more promiscuous will obviously have different stats than those which are not.
jar writes: Claiming this was some God given medical marvel is but reaching and imagination just like most Biblical prophecy. There's nothing astounding about it. Jar, please cut the inflamitory stuff, keep this thread civil and debate the topic minus the nasties. Nobody said it is a medical marvel nor is it imaginary. You as admin should know better.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by jar, posted 01-20-2006 7:10 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 11 by jar, posted 01-20-2006 9:12 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 12 of 111 (280416)
01-20-2006 9:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
01-20-2006 7:50 PM
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Chiroptera writes: Not a very adequate solution, though, eh? A better solution would be to abstain from sex altogether. Even in a sanctified, monogamous relationship, you have no way of knowing whether your partner is truly being "faithful". And even if she is the sort of person you can usually trust, everyone has weaknesses, and you never know that she may, in a moment of weakness, dally with the wrong person at the wrong time. The OP pertains to overall conglomerate abstinence. Can we agree that the more who abstain from the mentioned practices, the less incidence of SDIs the stats will show over the long haul?
ChiropteraNo, if one wants to reduce the risk of these diseases as much as possible, one should become totally, completely celibate. Are you saying "no, abstinence of the three practices do not diminish the incidence of SDIs apart from complete celibacy?" If not, what is your point relative to the OP?
Chiroptera writes: As Wounded King points out, even that is not perfect, but at least you would be doing what you can to reduce the risks. Oh, so your answer to the OP question is both "no" and "yes," for the long haul? Which is it? Please bear in mind that I did not ask in the OP whether the Biblical solution would totally eradicate SDIs. I asked if it is a medically scientific long term solution to the problem.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 7:50 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Hep B Blood & Mucous Membrane Transmuted
brennakimi writes: you can get hepatitis and some other "stds" from non-human contact through contaminated surfaces. the bacterial types can like in any moist environment as far as i know. Please note that I specified Hep B in the OP list. Hep B is transmitted via the blood or by mucous membrane contact, sexual contact being by far the primary cause.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 19 of 111 (280425)
01-20-2006 10:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by crashfrog
01-20-2006 8:33 PM
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Crashfrog writes: No. Abstinence usually is about only 30% effective over time for preventing the contraction of STD's or pregnancy. 1. The topic has nothing to do with pregnancy. Do your stats include pregnancy? If so they are a strawman as per this topic. 2. Where are you getting your stats and what time frame?
crashfrog writes: Moreover, even waiting to marry someone positive for these diseases, and being completely monogamous with them, will not prevent you from contracting the disease from them Would you agree that monogamous heterosexual practice reduces the incidence of these diseases?
crashfrog writes: So, no. I'd say there isn't much medical validity to the idea of "abstinence" as a prophilactic. The fact that it hasn't ever stemmed the tide of a disease in several thousand years should have been your first indicator. Given that the vast majority of aids infections are MSM, would you agree that MSM sexual abstinence would greatly reduce incidence of aids on the long haul?
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by crashfrog, posted 01-20-2006 8:33 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 25 of 111 (280433)
01-20-2006 11:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 20 by Coragyps
01-20-2006 10:23 PM
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chiroptera writes: MSM=??, Buz? Male/male sex? That's not even cause of a simple majority of AIDS cases in this century. In the 80's in the US it was, but that isn't now. I meant to specify the US where MMS related aids is about 8 times that of hetersexuals. This in spite of the fact that a small percentage of partners are MMS. In foreign countries like many permiscous African nations the problem has spread to heterosexuals. This is likely due to largely to the high incidence of permiscuous conduct also among heterosexuals. I don't know what the world stats are on that. Do you?
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Coragyps, posted 01-20-2006 10:23 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 64 by DBlevins, posted 01-24-2006 2:22 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: Hep B Blood & Mucous Membrane Transmuted
I have purposely cited Hep B for this topic as it is the relevant version to the topic at hand. It is transmitted via mucous membrane or blood, the majority of incidences being sexual related.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 33 of 111 (280578)
01-21-2006 6:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 31 by PaulK
01-21-2006 12:38 PM
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PaulK If monogamy is beneficial should we support monogamy amongst the homosexual population by endorsing gay marriage ? WOuld that be a "Biblical" thing to do ? The topic question pertains to the three practices, one of which is sodomy. This catagory includes the practice of monogamous homosexuality. Would abstinence from this practice reduce the incidence of one or more of the sexual diseases in the list significantly, say in the US? Note the following question I posed to Jar in message 19 where I specified monogamous heterosexual practice. Buz: Message 19: "Would you agree that monogamous heterosexual practice reduces the incidence of these diseases?"
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 31 by PaulK, posted 01-21-2006 12:38 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 35 of 111 (280583)
01-21-2006 6:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
01-21-2006 10:22 AM
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Crashfrog writes: Undesired pregnancy is an STD, if you ask me. Strawman: Pregnancy is not a disease. Buz: "Would you agree that monogamous heterosexual practice reduces the incidence of these diseases?"
Crashfrog writes: .....avoiding sexual contact with infected persons is the only way to prevent contracting these diseases. Conflating that with monogamy is dangerous at best. Scientific fact: The more partners you engage in sex with, the greater your chance of STD. Simple math. The more of a rabbitry society becomes, the faster STD moves. Buz: Given that the vast majority of aids infections are MSM, would you agree that MSM sexual abstinence would greatly reduce incidence of aids on the long haul?
Crashfrog writes: : MSM? I don't understand. How about MMS?
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 01-21-2006 10:22 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 37 of 111 (280587)
01-21-2006 7:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by PaulK
01-21-2006 6:12 PM
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The question as per the topic OP is whether abstinence of adultry, fornication and sodomy diminishes STDs. I prefer not to have the thread stray into subtopics pertaining to the three practices. To answer your question briefly, the less partners involved in any of these three practices would, of course, diminish the risk. To argue the pros and cons of gay marriage should be a separate topic which I don't want to get into in this thread.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by PaulK, posted 01-21-2006 6:12 PM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 01-21-2006 9:29 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 39 of 111 (280589)
01-21-2006 7:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by NosyNed
01-21-2006 6:57 PM
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Re: Wrong maybe?
My apologies for wasting your time, Ned. I got the abreviation mixed up and it appears that for some, the context wasn't enough to figure it out.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2006 6:57 PM | | NosyNed has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: it only takes once.
Crass post not worthy of comment!
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 42 of 111 (280593)
01-21-2006 7:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by Ben!
01-20-2006 10:06 PM
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Ben Has It Right
Ben writes: If you reduce the incidence of STDs before marriage, then (assuming monogamy in marriage), you would reduce the incidence in marriage. Less partners would have the disease, so less partners would transmit the disease to their partners. I.e. less incidence in the overall population of married people. At least, that's what my little brain is telling me. (Jar: "they will do nothing to minimize the initial exposure to STDs from non-sexual sources.") Same thing goes here too. If you have less people carrying STDs (because you reduced sexual transmission), then you have less people possibly transmitting an STD from a non-sexual source. You'd have less blood donors who might have STDs, for example. Or less kissing partners with STDs. You've hit the nail on the head, Ben. This is why some cultures and families have little or no incidence of STDs and others are plagued with them. The culture in some very promiscuous African nations verify this as well as some conservative cultures. 1. Under OT Levitical law, all three of these diseases carried a capital punishment condemnation for those under that authority and in that culture. It can be assumed that STD's for that culture were rare relative to the incidence of STD worldwide today. 2. Likely in fundamentalist Muslim nations like Saudi Arabia, the incidence of STDs would also be relatively low.
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by Ben!, posted 01-20-2006 10:06 PM | | Ben! has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by nator, posted 01-22-2006 9:17 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied | | | Message 55 by Ben!, posted 01-23-2006 10:14 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 49 of 111 (280682)
01-22-2006 10:03 AM
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Reply to: Message 44 by crashfrog
01-21-2006 9:26 PM
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Crashfrog writes: If having an unwanted tapeworm or an unwanted bacteria or an unwanted virus is a disease, then an unwanted pregnancy is a disease. What is a disease, if not a lifeform in your body that you don't want there? CF, if you want to romote your pregnancey=disease nonscience, please do your own thread. It's off topic here and not included in the STDs listed in the OP. Strawmen are not conducive to productive debate.
CF writes: Simple logic - you can't get a disease from someone who doesn't have one, and you can be infected by your first and only sexual partner. STD highly unlikely if you and your first folllow ( AbE: Biblical guidelines. )
CF writes: How about you tell me what the hell you're talking about? Juggling the letters around doesn't tell me what you mean. Most folks who've gotten this far in the thread have MMS figured out. It means male/male sex. This message has been edited by buzsaw, 01-22-2006 10:07 AM This message has been edited by buzsaw, 01-22-2006 10:09 AM
Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by crashfrog, posted 01-21-2006 9:26 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by crashfrog, posted 01-22-2006 6:54 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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