cut it out.
Heheheh...
adults needing circumcision medically in some rare conditions is not an argument for children being circumcised.
Uhhhh... children sometimes need it too. I said people sometimes need it. In addition to need, adults sometimes choose it for comfort or other cosmetic reasons.
Once again you keep changing facts to make your case stronger, when it isn't necessary.
and you are trying to demonize me and brenna for insisting that your logic is flawed, by comparing us to nutters and conspiracy theorists.
Trying to demonize? I am pointing out exactly what you are doing. You misrepresent facts, and argue as if I am saying something opposite of what I am actually saying, because I refuse to misrepresent facts to make my argument.
You then say it makes sense that you should not understand my position, because my argument contains corrections to your overstatements, despite the fact that I keep explaining my position to you.
Call me crazy, but that doesn't make much sense. It is acting irrationally to that subject, oversensitive. All you had to do was admit that you were overstating some facts, though that would not necessarily change your conclusion.
i would say that one side is cut and dry, but the other uncut and moist.
Heheheh...
now why are you jumping down my throat here for saying that it's an overkill solution for a mere potential risk? do you disagree?
See what I am talking about? I was not jumping down your throat at all. You can say it is an overkill solution to a potential risk. Statistically I can't say, and no one has attempted to supply accurate data either way, but personally feel it would be overkill and so I wouldn't.
That does not mean that Jazzns or his wife would view it that way, because they might put different values on different things. Perhaps they are completely vain and put all value on some cosmetic choice... I don't know. Or maybe they are so fearful of dealing with buildup of germs, they'd rather avoid it via a procedure with greater risk (if there is greater risk)... I don't know. Maybe they are Jewish or are in some community where the custom is important, and they put importance on conformity... I don't know.
And its important to note that none of those different positions would be wrong to take, even if I did not share them.
I think the best thing that can be given is the most accurate description of facts, and experiences, and the opinions drawn from them. They will then look at all of it and apply their own opinion filter to draw their own conclusion.
I have not debated your opinion or experiences, only a few descriptions of fact. Sheesh.
there is a sharp decrease in sensation in 100% of circumcisions. the foreskin is packed with nerve endings. or is it only a potential risk that when you cut off a sensory organ you lose sensation?
Okay see, this is exactly the type of horseshit I refuse to swallow and no one else should either. That's your Sure Con? Decrease in sensation? I told you what my experience was having been cut. I have the minor annoyance due to friction when engaging in a lot of sex.
Now maybe some guys are getting a lot more feeling than I am, but I am at absolutely no loss for pleasure. I am capable of reaching orgasm and have an absolutely fantastic time doing so. It can be so sensitive, or overpowering, that I have to stop for a sec. I do not have problems with erections either, due to some lack of feeling.
So what exactly is it that I am missing and desensitized about? Yes, I am certainly missing a section of skin with a bunch of nerve endings, but there are still way more than enough left to achieve exactly what they are supposed to do. Indeed one might ask if the mind does not naturally compensate for any physical loss of numerical nerve endings, with increased sensitivity of remaining ones.
Of course I am not claiming that no one has a loss in sensitivity, just pointing out that your claim of guaranteed loss is practically meaningless.
my mind is not totally made up on that. where does one draw the line between acceptable cultural or religious practice and something like fgm? is fgm acceptable on the basis, and if not, why?
But this gets to the issue which is really important here, and that is that Jazzns and his wife may put stresses on different things, and so the conclusion you and I might draw regarding infant cutting, may be different than their own.
If I felt a strong connection to the Jewish or Islamic faith or any other culture where that was an important symbolic practice, then I'd find it acceptable.
Although fgm makes my eyebrows shoot up, especially if it involves removal of the clitoris, I do not find it something I must then browbeat another person into disliking. People in those cultures find reason and meaning in it. The so called "victims" are not always that at all.
Michael Palin had an interesting encounter with an African village that engaged in that practice and how it was a part of their very creation mythology. It was amazing to watch that doc and see a people that had concepts completely beyond my own. If they are happy and find meaning, who am I to say otherwise and create misery among them?
Indeed could making people discontent with their way of life... for not getting 100% of everything possible they might have been able to out of life (which is OUR materialist culture)... be as bad as allowing the continuation of practices we might not understand or agree with?
This message has been edited by holmes, 01-21-2006 06:48 AM
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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