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Author Topic:   What we must accept if we accept evolution
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 318 (280737)
01-22-2006 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
01-22-2006 11:39 AM


Re: truth vs. sentiment
What makes it sentimental to my mind is that it has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. If you can believe something without also believing it true, just that you like believing it, that's sentimentality
Yes, a person might think it's true, but the reasons one does so are emotional not logical. Let's say there's this woman who has the belief that her husband is a fine, upstanding individual, whereas all the evidence points to the fact that he is a coldhearted crook.
Her belief is sentimental. Sentimentality can also be negative, but it's still sentimentality.
There might be this woman who WANTS to believe and therefore does believe that her husband is a coldhearted crook (she's in love with another man, say), whereas in fact her husband is a fine, upstanding individual. Her belief is also sentimental.
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 01-22-2006 12:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Faith, posted 01-22-2006 11:39 AM Faith has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 318 (280738)
01-22-2006 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by PaulK
01-22-2006 1:29 PM


Re: one more baby step.
Evolution says no such thing.
It strongly implies materialism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2006 1:29 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by PaulK, posted 01-22-2006 1:47 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 110 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2006 3:12 PM robinrohan has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 108 of 318 (280741)
01-22-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 1:34 PM


Re: one more baby step.
That assertion is one of the others under dispute in this thread - and one you have yet to make a case for.
I would say that evolution undermines some arguments against materialism which is a different thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 1:34 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 109 of 318 (280748)
01-22-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 11:00 AM


Re: ONLY scientific results as "true"
i'm sorry?
what's that supposed to mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 11:00 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 110 of 318 (280750)
01-22-2006 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 1:34 PM


Why just evolution?.
Science in general, with no particular need to invoke evolution as a special case, claims that the knowledge of material {objects\concepts\processes} is best achieved through the scientific process.
It makes no claim to be a process to advance knowledge of non-material {objects\concepts\processes}.
We cannot conflate scientific knowledge with all knowledge.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by robinrohan, posted 01-22-2006 1:34 PM robinrohan has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 318 (280795)
01-22-2006 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by macaroniandcheese
01-22-2006 2:57 PM


Re: ONLY scientific results as "true"
It means, Brenn, that your comment makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-22-2006 2:57 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 318 (280796)
01-22-2006 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by RAZD
01-22-2006 3:12 PM


Re: Why just evolution?.
We cannot conflate scientific knowledge with all knowledge.
How very amusing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2006 3:12 PM RAZD has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 113 of 318 (280812)
01-22-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by robinrohan
01-22-2006 6:29 PM


Re: Why just evolution?.
Without even getting into metaphysical knowledge, there is the whole area of philosophy.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy"

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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 318 (280815)
01-22-2006 7:58 PM


Materialism = Evolution
Not only does evolution promote materialism because of it being the study of the physical world, but inside of the mindset given off by believing that we evolved, one could say that to "survive" in today's day and age, it is better to be materialistic in nature. This is evident in what society deems as "success", to gain money, as many things as possible before you die. The rich, the successful, are better able to survive, to live even in luxury because of materialism.
There is a connection to evolution most definately.

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by nwr, posted 01-22-2006 8:27 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 116 by RAZD, posted 01-22-2006 8:29 PM joshua221 has replied
 Message 117 by edge, posted 01-22-2006 8:59 PM joshua221 has replied

nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 115 of 318 (280819)
01-22-2006 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by joshua221
01-22-2006 7:58 PM


Re: Materialism = Evolution
No materialism and evolutionism are not the same.
Evolution is materialist, in that it is about physical organisms. But one can be an evolutionist without insisting that everything is material.
This is evident in what society deems as "success", to gain money, as many things as possible before you die.
That's really a different meaning of "materialism". One can enjoy life without being committed to maximize one's material riches.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 7:58 PM joshua221 has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 116 of 318 (280820)
01-22-2006 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by joshua221
01-22-2006 7:58 PM


Re: Materialism not just Evolution
Sorry, but this is a logical fallacy of part for the whole.
Evolution is not the only "study of the physical world" for that is the role of all of science, it is what defines science:
  • The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
  • Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
  • Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
If you have a complaint against evolution on this score, you really have a complaint against all of science.
Failure to recognize this is cherry-picking which sciences you tolerate and which you object to because of your beliefs rather than what the sciences involve.
Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS\HIV} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 7:58 PM joshua221 has replied

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 1706 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 117 of 318 (280832)
01-22-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by joshua221
01-22-2006 7:58 PM


Re: Materialism = Evolution
This is evident in what society deems as "success", to gain money, as many things as possible before you die. The rich, the successful, are better able to survive, to live even in luxury because of materialism.
Are you saying that this form of materialism came about because of evolution? That it never existed before? This is a remarkable statement. Please support it.
This message has been edited by edge, 01-22-2006 08:59 PM

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 Message 114 by joshua221, posted 01-22-2006 7:58 PM joshua221 has replied

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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 318 (280833)
01-22-2006 9:05 PM


Survival of the Fittest is a key part in the evolutionary scheme. Natural Selection.
In human society, one who is materialist is better at surviving, evolution therefore promotes materialism.

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by edge, posted 01-23-2006 8:30 AM joshua221 has replied

joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 318 (280834)
01-22-2006 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by edge
01-22-2006 8:59 PM


Re: Materialism = Evolution
According to evolutionists, and supporters of scientific research, there was no "before" to evolution.
I was just implying that evolution and materialism in human society go hand in hand.
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-22-2006 09:07 PM

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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 318 (280835)
01-22-2006 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by nwr
01-22-2006 8:27 PM


Re: Materialism = Evolution
quote:
That's really a different meaning of "materialism". One can enjoy life without being committed to maximize one's material riches.
Exactly. But one who maximizes on material riches is "better" at surviving. Natural Selection, the rich, those who have luxury, will live longer, materialism and evolution go hand in hand. The poor, those who are not materialistic, will not benefit from the riches, or what society deems as success, therefore will most likely die earlier. If you are rich, you survive better.
Being rich requires materialism to an extent.
That means that materialism pushes our species along, evolving more effectively.
Within Humanity at least.
This message has been edited by prophex, 01-22-2006 09:11 PM

This message is a reply to:
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