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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures: The Consequtive Consecution
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 226 of 302 (280958)
01-23-2006 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by macaroniandcheese
01-19-2006 10:47 PM


Re: history of feminism thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-19-2006 10:47 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 227 of 302 (280973)
01-23-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Silent H
01-23-2006 1:39 PM


Re: Any decisions?
The answers I would provide you are the same ones I always offer. When someone misrepresents your views in a thread just go ahead and correct them in the same thread. If the misrepresentation is off-topic, then simply say they're wrong about your views but because it's off-topic you can't get into the details, then move on. Moderators are volunteers whose time is limited, so it really helps when members possess some conflict resolution skills of their own.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Silent H, posted 01-23-2006 1:39 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Silent H, posted 01-23-2006 3:01 PM Admin has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 228 of 302 (280978)
01-23-2006 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Admin
01-23-2006 2:16 PM


Re: Any decisions?
When someone misrepresents your views in a thread just go ahead and correct them in the same thread. If the misrepresentation is off-topic, then simply say they're wrong about your views but because it's off-topic you can't get into the details, then move on. Moderators are volunteers whose time is limited, so it really helps when members possess some conflict resolution skills of their own.
Ahem... and then they do it again, and again, and again? Yeah, your time is limited and so is mine and I do have resolution skills. My resolution was to create a new thread containing the debate that would be started and just point to it.
This is something others can do if they find themselves in the same situation of any oft repeated argument, not just a misrep position. Others have stated that is an issue.
If there is something wrong with that method, please explain what it is. Otherwise correcting them in thread and just saying "you are wrong but I can't get into details" does not cut it. It is an issue of repetition by SOMEONE ELSE. Its the OTHER PERSON who does not drop it.
Frankly I'm not happy with being portrayed as someone without resolution skills when the problem arose when a mod cut off my attempt at resolution, there has been no valid explanation why, or what can take its place. The one resolution suggested was essentially a mirror of my own, only requiring mod control.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Admin, posted 01-23-2006 2:16 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Admin, posted 01-23-2006 4:50 PM Silent H has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 229 of 302 (281017)
01-23-2006 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Silent H
01-23-2006 3:01 PM


Re: Any decisions?
I'm afraid I've devoted all the time to this that I can afford. An extended exchange of posts isn't possible. You have some very fixed ideas for what will satisfy you, and back-and-forthing our way to something that makes you happy isn't possible for me right now. Perhaps one of the other moderators is willing to devote some time to your issues. AdminBen was interested at one point, perhaps he'll pick this up.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Silent H, posted 01-23-2006 3:01 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by Silent H, posted 01-23-2006 5:27 PM Admin has replied

Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 230 of 302 (281031)
01-23-2006 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Admin
01-23-2006 4:50 PM


Re: Any decisions?
I'm afraid I've devoted all the time to this that I can afford.
What irony. I didn't demand that you reply in the first place, it was an open question to anyone available because Ben said an answer was being looked into by admins.
I only asked you after you replied to randman regarding my request, indeed taking a dig at me in it. Pardon me for thinking that meant you might have some time.
You have some very fixed ideas for what will satisfy you
No I don't have a fixed idea. I am telling you why the one you suggested cannot work. It assumes the other poster will stop. I came up with an idea and still have not been told why it would not work, though it was sanctioned.
The other "suggestions" were to wait. I did, and now I am asking. Sheesh.
Perhaps one of the other moderators is willing to devote some time to your issues. AdminBen was interested at one point, perhaps he'll pick this up.
Yeah, gee I wonder if maybe that's who told me an answer was being worked on, and so I dropped in to ask if it had been come up with? Hmmmmm.
Here's a suggestion: If you don't have time to deal with an issue some asks about, or don't know the answer, how about NOT replying to someone that replies to them, especially with a dig at the person who asked the question.
It creates this illusion that you have time to deal with something, or care. Now it looks like what you care about is defending yourself and your pals from criticism (rand's post), and dropping insults instead of solutions (you've insulted me in every post without once dealing with what I actually said).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Admin, posted 01-23-2006 4:50 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Admin, posted 01-23-2006 5:39 PM Silent H has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 231 of 302 (281034)
01-23-2006 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by Silent H
01-23-2006 5:27 PM


Re: Any decisions?
Hi Holmes,
Hmmm. Despite my best intentions not to let this happen, I seem to be the latest person drawn into a spat with you. I'm going to give you a 24 hour suspension, and when you return I hope you return in a frame of mind more conducive to discussion and compromise than to demands and criticism.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Silent H, posted 01-23-2006 5:27 PM Silent H has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 232 of 302 (281063)
01-23-2006 9:14 PM


To All
I've probably said this before, but EvC Forum, indeed any board focused on controversial topics, is not a place for the perpetually disgruntled or easily offended. People who come here are expected to behave like adults who understand that:
  • The world is not a fair place.
  • They are not the center of the universe.
  • There are other points of view than their own.
  • They should behave with politeness and decorum.
  • They can't always have their own way.
  • Authority should be treated with respect.
So if you're unhappy here at EvC Forum, please do not take it out on the moderators. The moderator team understands that to moderate is to err, and we welcome and solicit constructive feedback and criticism. The goal of EvC Forum and is the free and open exchange of ideas and opinions between creationists and evolutionists, so let's all pledge to do all we can to make this possible.
I urge everyone, as I always do, to focus on the issues. Discussion boards are notorious for fostering misunderstandings. It is the nature of this media. Be prepared to clarify your points over and over and over again, and ignore the nagging feeling that you're being taken advantage of because much more often than not it's all in your mind.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-24-2006 10:35 AM Admin has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 233 of 302 (281184)
01-24-2006 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Admin
01-23-2006 9:14 PM


Re: To All
yeah. come on people. it's just the internet and no one here actually knows who you are.
behave responsibly and the universe will tend to work things out for itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Admin, posted 01-23-2006 9:14 PM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 11:37 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 234 of 302 (281204)
01-24-2006 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by macaroniandcheese
01-24-2006 10:35 AM


Re: To All
Brenna, jar's posts insinuated to holmes, imo, that this is "for the record" and thus perhaps is indeed going to be used against the individuals later, or that's how I read jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by macaroniandcheese, posted 01-24-2006 10:35 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Admin, posted 01-24-2006 11:48 AM randman has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12995
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 235 of 302 (281208)
01-24-2006 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by randman
01-24-2006 11:37 AM


Re: To All
Could you edit a link to Jar's message into your post?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 11:37 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 12:04 PM Admin has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 236 of 302 (281214)
01-24-2006 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Admin
01-24-2006 11:48 AM


Re: To All
Glad to see you have some time. You'd probably have to read a little more than one post, but note the following:
Well, the thread is here for the important audience, the real audience, the readers. They will have a record and can make informed judgements on the techniques and motives of the partcipants.
http://EvC Forum: Should this guy have served time? -->EvC Forum: Should this guy have served time?
That was directed towards me, but note that Holmes noted:
Man are you getting the treatment. I'm not sure I like the new format of EvC, which is apparently for an "audience" rather than the people trying to discuss subjects, and apparently for mods to act as they will. Sheesh.
http://EvC Forum: Should this guy have served time? -->EvC Forum: Should this guy have served time?
I admit this does not say for sure that Holmes feels what he says on this forum will be used against him. So I need to qualify that, but if you read the thread, Holmes takes a very unpopular position, one that advocates legalizing that most people despise as one of the worst offenses, but he does so in a manner that is logical and respectful.
I think we all know jar has a lot of access to this forum, and for me, I suspect he can obtain our personal identities to a certain extent from our registration data. Jar says this is "for the record" and concerns "the participants." I know I definitely do not feel I would trust that people's anonymity would be protected, down the road. Holmes though, on closer inspection, does not seem concerned about that.
You probably want to give jar the benefit of the doubt, that he means only the anonymous "participants" but considering his hatred of religious conservatives, calling them bigots and such, I see his comments as something else, but either way, I think he shows that he is not discussing issues in good faith, but is simply trying to score points, imo, through sophistry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Admin, posted 01-24-2006 11:48 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:06 PM randman has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 237 of 302 (281235)
01-24-2006 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by randman
01-24-2006 12:04 PM


Randman once agian misrepresents what I say.
and even then cannot get the links right. LOL
My post (a response to one of his posts) is Message 32 in the referenced thread.
It makes it quite clear that the thread is here for people to read, that the important audience is those who read the material at EvC, all of the material. It alos makes it clear that the thread is a record for others to use to make their own judgement of the content, techniques and motives of the participants.
You probably want to give jar the benefit of the doubt, that he means only the anonymous "participants" but considering his hatred of religious conservatives, calling them bigots and such, I see his comments as something else, but either way, I think he shows that he is not discussing issues in good faith, but is simply trying to score points, imo, through sophistry.
I do not hate religious Conservatives, I fear and pity them. I certainly do call their actions bogotted when they deny human rights and try to oppress people.
As to which audience is the most important, as YOU have been told before, IMHO there are far more lurkers, those who come to EvC to read the content, than there are those of us who post. This has been explained to you before. In case you have forgotten yet again, here is what I explained to you before.
AdminJar writes:
Okay.
If you would like to discuss this I will be happy to do so. In particular the issues of who the audience is, and what the purpose of having creationists post here should be included.
Basically, as a summary that if you want you can spin off into a new thread:
IMHO the real audience here are the lurkers, the vast majority of people who come here and read and yet seldom, or ever post. They vastly outnumber those who do actually post, and even those who register.
Why have Creationists here?
Again, IMHO, so that they can attempt to present their case. They are given every opportunity to present the best case possible in support of their ideas.
We have divided the forum into two sections to further make it possible for them to express themselves. There are the Faith and Belief areas where they can even try to use the Bible as valid evidence in support of their position, and they are allowed much greater leaway in presenting their case, even to the point of their rejecting something simply because they "Don't Believe it".
I don't think ALL creationists are dishonest or imbeciles. Many are dishonest, but that's just a statement of fact.
I do want a record in particular so that willfull ignorance IS made clear to the lurkers. It's the contents of the posts the different people write. That content is fully under their control, not under the control of those posting on the evolutionary side or the Admins, but the person writing it.
And yes, it is that record, the posts here at EvC that the lurkers will read, and from which they will judge the message.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 12:04 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:11 PM jar has replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 238 of 302 (281238)
01-24-2006 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by jar
01-24-2006 1:06 PM


Re: Randman once agian misrepresents what I say.
So jar, are you saying the content here will not be available for years to come and that you would never use this content against anyone personally or compromise their anonymmity?
For example, let's say someone here that is a religious conservative is running for office, and you know they posted something inflammatory here, and you despise everything they stand for.
Would you leak their identity and quote them?
How about if someone like Holmes really angers you down the road....? His views on sexual freedom, which I strongly disagree with for children, could nonetheless reflect badly, say, in an application for an academic position?
Personally, judging by the way you post and your denigration of other people, I certainly don't think trusting your sense of fairness is a wise move.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-24-2006 1:14 PM randman has replied
 Message 241 by jar, posted 01-24-2006 1:27 PM randman has replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 239 of 302 (281240)
01-24-2006 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by randman
01-24-2006 1:11 PM


Re: Randman once agian misrepresents what I say.
How, pray tell, is jar suppose to get the poster's real name? Did you give that information when YOU joined?
You are being slanderous. You are basically accusing a fellow poster of trying to use his position to ruin others in the real world. While you are not saying he is actively doing this at this time, you make slanderous remarks designed to make others question his integrity.
I suggest you post some evidence that this is possible and that jar would even think of doing this, or retract your statement.
This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 01-24-2006 12:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:11 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by randman, posted 01-24-2006 1:17 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 240 of 302 (281242)
01-24-2006 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by AdminAsgara
01-24-2006 1:14 PM


Re: Randman once agian misrepresents what I say.
You have to give an e-mail address, correct? I have forgotten but I thought there was some other personal info requested, but maybe not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-24-2006 1:14 PM AdminAsgara has not replied

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