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Author Topic:   Biblical Long Term Solution To The Following Diseases
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 76 of 111 (281470)
01-25-2006 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by nator
01-25-2006 8:59 AM


Re: General Reply
Prostitution is very common in certain districts in Tokyo. Let me tell you how fun it was to walk around there with my husband and his friend a little ways ahead of me and watch hooker after hooker proposition them. They thought it was a hoot.
Did they physically manhandle them into the bordello? That happened to my dad once, right in front of mom, in Korea.
Nothing about sex in Japan would surprise me, I guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by nator, posted 01-25-2006 8:59 AM nator has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 77 of 111 (281482)
01-25-2006 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by nator
01-25-2006 8:59 AM


Re: General Reply
The thing is, husbands and wives are not considered to be "soulmates" or anything there.
Prostitution is very common in certain districts in Tokyo.
Look, let's not talk about things we don't know about.
There's prostitution in all big cities. Nothing special about Japan there.
Divorce rates in the US are what, 50%? "Soulmates" is a very ... culturally defined thing. What does it really mean, practically speaking? That people get along well, that their marriage will work out, that the relationship will be more rewarding than any other? I wouldn't say Japanese people don't have these values.
You are talking about a group of people who you know little about in a non-complimentary fashion. Frankly I think it's a poor way to approach discussion, a bad method for relating to others, and gives the wrong message to anybody who's reading.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by nator, posted 01-25-2006 8:59 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by nator, posted 01-25-2006 8:16 PM Ben! has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 78 of 111 (281582)
01-25-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Ben!
01-25-2006 10:27 AM


Re: General Reply
quote:
Look, let's not talk about things we don't know about.
Hey, I'm only repeating what my friend, who has lived in Japan for about 10 years, has told me, and also what his wife, a Japanese woman who has lived in Japan her whole life, has told me.
quote:
There's prostitution in all big cities. Nothing special about Japan there.
But it's different there. It is technically illegal, though rarely enforced or prosecuted. After WW2 the Americans forced them to make it illegal. Nobody considers it seedy or unseemly.
That is VERY different from the American view of prostitution.
quote:
Divorce rates in the US are what, 50%? "Soulmates" is a very ... culturally defined thing. What does it really mean, practically speaking? That people get along well, that their marriage will work out, that the relationship will be more rewarding than any other? I wouldn't say Japanese people don't have these values.
That isn't a soulmate. That's someone who is merely "compatible".
Soulmates are people deeply in love, who are the very best of friends, and want to spend most of their free time together and consider themselves very much connected. I just don't get that to be the basis of a typical marriage in Japan. Women tend to have their friends, and men their work, and they don't really have that very close connection, and it isn't expected from marriage the way it is here these days. Things are changing there, though, as the more rigid social structure is changing. At least, that's according to what my friend Yuko has told me.
quote:
You are talking about a group of people who you know little about in a non-complimentary fashion.
Like I said, I have discussed this with my Japanese friends and people who have lived in Japan for a long time.
quote:
Frankly I think it's a poor way to approach discussion, a bad method for relating to others, and gives the wrong message to anybody who's reading.
I sure am sorry you feel that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Ben!, posted 01-25-2006 10:27 AM Ben! has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Ben!, posted 01-26-2006 2:10 AM nator has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 111 (281620)
01-25-2006 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by crashfrog
01-24-2006 9:34 AM


Re: General Reply
crashfrog writes:
Advice that is impossible or impractical to follow has no medical validity. The "cure" for the common cold, after all, is to never contract a cold virus. But the reason that's not the advice of doctors is because avoiding cold viruses requires a life spent in immunological isolation, which is impossible or impractical for just about everyone.
1. What is so impossible or impractical about abstaining from fornication, adultery or sodomy (homosexuality as per definition for centuries as per intended definition in the OP.} I have found it neither impossible or impractical in my 70 years, including four years in the Air Force. Besides, both my wife and I know that through sickness or health, through poverty or prosperity and through sorrow or joy, til death do part, we belong to each other.
2. As for the culture of the Levitical law, if you knew that deviation from the abstinence meant death by stoning, it became very possible and practical to abstain from all three.
crashfrog writes:
Homosexuals are not "sodomites"; anal sex is an act much more likely to be done by straight couples than gay ones.
It is a Biblical term used in reference to male homosexuals. In Deuteronomy 23:17 it says "there shall be no prostitues among the daughters of Israel nor sodomites of the sons of Israel." Now we know that Israelites weren't citizens of Sodom, for Sodom was destroyed long before this cited reference, so it had to have been in reference to MMS which my dictionary defines sodomy as.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by crashfrog, posted 01-24-2006 9:34 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 7:57 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 111 (281628)
01-26-2006 12:31 AM


This is drifting off topic, but for what it's worth, the stats in two cites I checked said the out of wedlock births in Japan were less than 2 percent as compared to over 30 percent in the US. However I understand that of late years, the high regard for virginity has waned/is waning considerably in Japan.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Ben!, posted 01-26-2006 1:57 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 81 of 111 (281650)
01-26-2006 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Buzsaw
01-26-2006 12:31 AM


the high regard for virginity has waned/is waning considerably in Japan.
As far as I know, there is zero regard for virginity in Japan. In fact, according to a poll of 7 Japanese women, the opposite is important--to be well-versed in sexual acts, so as to be knowledgeable enough to give pleasure to your partners. A virgin is simply considered to be an amateur, an undesirable trait.
The women I've talked to are all big-city girls, though. I'm not sure what's up in the countryside.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2006 12:31 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 82 of 111 (281653)
01-26-2006 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by nator
01-25-2006 8:16 PM


Re: General Reply
schraf,
Sorry for getting cranky (again). To me, there's a big difference between [producing observations, hearsay, or facts] and producing those things along with judgements. I felt your tone was judgemental and, since I have tight ties to the Japanese culture, I am really sensitive to it.
Nobody considers it seedy or unseemly.
I think this is way too strong a statement. In the cities, among the younger generation, it seems to me pretty well accepted. However, since prostitution usually (as far as I know) runs via the mafia, it has the same "I don't want something to do with it" feeling associated with it. Furthermore, as far as I know, the older generation, and the people in the countryside, certainly do feel differently.
That is VERY different from the American view of prostitution.
The lines are not drawn by religion, but otherwise I don't see much of a difference. I know very few friends who are against prostitution except on religious grounds. The division in Japan may come from different ideals, but a division is there.
That isn't a soulmate. That's someone who is merely "compatible".
Well, let me get back to what I objected to:
schraf writes:
crash writes:
Sorry, I don't know much more than that. I'd say that, in the country where you can buy used schoolgirl's panties in vending machines (or used to, until they shut them down under violation of the Antiquities Act, of all things), all sexual bets are off.
The thing is, husbands and wives are not considered to be "soulmates" or anything there.
The implication (in my eyes) was that a lack of "soulmates" meant a focus on crazy sexual pleasures, promiscuity, chaos. THAT is what I objected to. Sorry if I read too much into it.
Women tend to have their friends, and men their work, and they don't really have that very close connection, and it isn't expected from marriage the way it is here these days.
I think that's a fair observation.
Like I said, I have discussed this with my Japanese friends and people who have lived in Japan for a long time.
I'd say, be wary of people who either are Americanized, are American, or who love American / English-speaking things. I find they tend to paint Japan with a very judgemental brush, and in a poor light, and to really idealize America. I don't like that, and I'm sensitive to it.
Sorry for taking it out by being a bit aggressive with you. AbE: and thanks for taking it in stride.
I am glad to share my experiences and observations from living in Tokyo, travelling around Japan, and knowing my girlfriend's family a bit. I'll try to do so more ... with ease next time.
Ben
This message has been edited by Ben, Wednesday, 2006/01/25 11:11 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by nator, posted 01-25-2006 8:16 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 8:01 AM Ben! has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 83 of 111 (281689)
01-26-2006 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Buzsaw
01-25-2006 11:54 PM


Re: General Reply
quote:
What is so impossible or impractical about abstaining from fornication, adultery or sodomy
How are you going to instantly stop all rape, buz?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Buzsaw, posted 01-25-2006 11:54 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2006 9:40 PM nator has not replied
 Message 86 by Iblis, posted 01-26-2006 10:08 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 111 (281692)
01-26-2006 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Ben!
01-26-2006 2:10 AM


Re: General Reply
quote:
The implication (in my eyes) was that a lack of "soulmates" meant a focus on crazy sexual pleasures, promiscuity, chaos. THAT is what I objected to. Sorry if I read too much into it.
Oh, that's not what I meant at all. Just the opposite, in fact.
quote:
Sorry for taking it out by being a bit aggressive with you. AbE: and thanks for taking it in stride.
No worries!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Ben!, posted 01-26-2006 2:10 AM Ben! has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 111 (281849)
01-26-2006 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by nator
01-26-2006 7:57 AM


Re: General Reply
Shrafinator writes:
How are you going to instantly stop all rape, buz?
1. This is getting waaaay off topic. This topic is not about the Japanese or how to stop rape, et al. It's about whether the Biblical Levitical law regarding sex is medically scientific relative to prevention of STDs listed in the long haul.
2. If you read the title of this thread it's not about instantly stopping anything. Note the phrase, "long term" in the title.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 7:57 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 01-26-2006 10:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 86 of 111 (281857)
01-26-2006 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by nator
01-26-2006 7:57 AM


Re: General Reply
How are you going to instantly stop all rape, buz?
Weren't you reading along? He's going to stone them to death!
I don't understand why you guys keep getting off topic! You keep talking about different views on fornication, sodomy, adultery, and the spread of disease. None of those things are in the OP are they?
Please, comply with the rules of the forum and go out and get some rocks and kill everyone who disagrees with Buz's sexual rules right now without any further logical arguments, or this topic might get closed
Come on Buz, seriously, what kind of medical advice includes throwing rocks at people but considers disease vectors irrelevant? You are the one who made this thread what it is, the only thing you would consider on topic is absolute agreement, that devalues the topic rules entirely and once the rules have no value no one feels a need to obey them. Why should they? So long as we are off-topic anyway, we might as well talk about Nipponese hookers and their soul-mates, at least they are relevant to our contemporary lives, Leviticus was repealed in Mark and again in Acts even for literalist believers with shallow Western ideas about religion.
Which brings me to my real point, the whole soul-mates thing is derived from reincarnation and not easily understood by the West for this reason. A soul-mate isn't just some superlative for romantic love, it's a whole different thing. Soul-mates are people who care for one another so much that they are willing to come back as husband and wife, parent and child, brother and sister, master and slave, or victim and killer, so long as they get to be together as the most important person in each other's life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by nator, posted 01-26-2006 7:57 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 87 of 111 (281858)
01-26-2006 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Buzsaw
01-26-2006 9:40 PM


Re: General Reply
Note the phrase, "long term" in the title.
What's your long-term plan for preventing all rapes, then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2006 9:40 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Buzsaw, posted 01-26-2006 10:47 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 111 (281862)
01-26-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Chiroptera
01-24-2006 9:50 AM


Re: General Reply
Chiroptera writes:
No. The reason is that you have taken a continuum of behavior, namely complete promiscuity to complete celibacy, and have chosen one arbitrary point on that continuum. Furthermore, you have ignored complications to this continuum, like the regular use of prophylaxis, regular health screenings, and the like. You have chosen this one arbitrary set of behaviors because an implicit idea of what is "good" or "referrable", value judgements that are not part of any scientific investigation.
1. Say what? Complete promiscuity to complete celibacy? How did you read this into my OP or subsequent posts?
2. Regular use of prophylatics to achieve prophylaxis (I assume that's what you mean by "regular use of") is off topic here. This thread is about abstinence relative to prophylaxis/prevention of disease.
3. I have chosen this arbitrary set of behavior because this is the Biblical one which I wish to address as to whether it is medically scientific for the long term prevention of STDs listed in the OP. How many times do I need to repeat what this thread is about?
Chiroptera writes:
A future messianic kingdom is the concern of neither science nor medicine.
It is a concern if you keep it in the context in which I used it. Without going back, I believe it I was responding to someone as to how this Levitical mandate was relative to prevention of disease and that God implemented it as a factor in the preservation of a nation to become his kingdom on earth.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Chiroptera, posted 01-24-2006 9:50 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Chiroptera, posted 01-30-2006 6:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 111 (281863)
01-26-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by crashfrog
01-26-2006 10:09 PM


Re: General Reply
crashfrog writes:
What's your long-term plan for preventing all rapes, then?
OFF TOPIC! Start your own thread if you wish to talk about prevention of rape, (Abe: which offense, btw, also carried the capital punishment.} PLEASE REREAD THE TITLE AND OP!
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 01-26-2006 10:51 PM

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by crashfrog, posted 01-26-2006 10:09 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Funkaloyd, posted 01-26-2006 11:30 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 111 (281866)
01-26-2006 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Iblis
01-26-2006 10:08 PM


Re: General Reply
Iblis, me friend, you did good in your post until you got here.
Iblis writes:
Please, comply with the rules of the forum and go out and get some rocks and kill everyone who disagrees with Buz's sexual rules right now without any further logical arguments, or this topic might get closed
No, PLEASE, COMPLY WITH THE Forum Guidelines and STOP DERAILING MY THREAD!
Iblis writes:
Come on Buz, seriously, what kind of medical advice includes throwing rocks at people but considers disease vectors irrelevant?
1. I said nothing in my OP solution about killing anyone did I? The question was whether abstinence of the three deviant sexual practices as a prevention/solution to the problem of STDs listed.
Though the capital punishment factor likely would be an incentive for abstinence, it has nothing to do medically or scientifically as to whether the abstinence from the deviations work to prevent disease. It is the abstinence factor that is addressed in the OP. As to the question of justness of the punishment, that is another topic.
Iblis writes:
You are the one who made this thread what it is, the only thing you would consider on topic is absolute agreement,
How so? I've presented God's Biblical Levitical solution for the Israelites and asked the question. You all have two choices for answers, either "yes" or "no." The problem is that all who've said "no" create off topic strawmen for their reasons rather than forthrightly reading the propostition set forth in the OP and answering on the merits of the OP proposition. Your real problem appears to be that you don't like the correct answer, for to own up to the reality of it would be to admit that something in the Bible is medically scientific regarding STDs.
Iblis writes:
that devalues the topic rules entirely and once the rules have no value no one feels a need to obey them. Why should they? So long as we are off-topic anyway, we might as well talk about Nipponese hookers and their soul-mates, at least they are relevant to our contemporary lives
But don't you understand, my friend, that this topic is not about something contemporary? It has solely to do with whether God's prophilaxis, if you will, is/was medically scientific for the long haul.
Soul mates off topic. Do your own thread on it if that's what you wish to discuss.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Iblis, posted 01-26-2006 10:08 PM Iblis has not replied

  
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