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Author Topic:   Should this guy have served time?
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 65 of 112 (280236)
01-20-2006 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Silent H
01-20-2006 7:57 AM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
Holmes, thanks for the response and kind words. I think the whole issue is something soceity has mixed feelings over, in terms of the age of consent. There is probably wide disagreement over the proper age for people to legally decide to have sex with whomever they want.
The guy though that molested the 7 year old girl only getting 60 days seems unjust to the victim's family. This leaves the impression, whether right or wrong, that more liberal states like Vermont and Massuchusetts that are pushing gay marriage are more likely to push for allowing or going light on child molestation as well, although perhaps a 15 year old is not just a child.
However, I also believe that parents have a right to raise their children according to their own customs, and so can and should have the ability to override the choice of their child to have sex.
This is interesting because it asserts the fundamental right of the family over the state, something I am for in general. However, if a parent were allowing their small children to have sex with a friend they have over for dinner, it still strikes me as, well, perverse and probably detrimental to the child.
In addition, there are issues when dealing with teachers and other professionals entrusted with the care of children by parents. They pretty much have a right to expect that they are not about to get "service" beyond the scope of why they sent their kid to the person, and certainly not for subjects against their will.
Agreed. I think one of the things whether it be the Catholic priests or teachers having sex with kids that is so upsetting is that these people are trusted with the kids in their care, and yet they choose to violate that trust.
Back to the issues in the OP, I do think and I am sure some will call me a bigot for saying this, that in the homosexual community, adult men going after underage but past puberty teens is more widespread and accepted than what is openly acknowledged. That was why I brought up the historical instances of this. I have heard homosexuals insist this is not the case, but at the same time, being an artist and somewhat familiar with the gay community as a result, I think it's way underplayed by homosexual advocates.
As homosexuality is normalized, there will be, imo, another big issue with the age of consent for homosexual sex, and I suspect in states with a strong gay lobby, that the age of consent will be lowered either legally or in practical terms in terms of enforcement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Silent H, posted 01-20-2006 7:57 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 12:16 PM randman has replied
 Message 75 by Silent H, posted 01-20-2006 1:40 PM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 66 of 112 (280238)
01-20-2006 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by crashfrog
01-20-2006 9:58 AM


Re: she is pro-gay
There's a pretty high standard for demanding that a judge recuse themselves from a case; generally it requires proof of a highly prejudicial, personal relationship between the judge and either the defendant or the plaintif.
In the case argued for gay marriage, I think that a highly prejudicial, personal relationship between the judge (and more so for Judge Marshall) and her friend, the plaintif's attorney, and the cause of the plaintif was existing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by crashfrog, posted 01-20-2006 9:58 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Wounded King, posted 01-20-2006 11:18 AM randman has replied
 Message 68 by crashfrog, posted 01-20-2006 11:36 AM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 69 of 112 (280280)
01-20-2006 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Wounded King
01-20-2006 11:18 AM


Re: she is pro-gay
So she appears at the Gay and Lesbian Bar Association and says essentially, hey, when are you guys going to bring a gay marriage suit like they did in Vermont; that we are behind and this is absurd that we don't allow gay marriage, etc,... and of course, she sits on the court, and plays a key role in deciding the law.
And that's professional conduct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Wounded King, posted 01-20-2006 11:18 AM Wounded King has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Wounded King, posted 01-20-2006 12:49 PM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 74 of 112 (280314)
01-20-2006 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Chiroptera
01-20-2006 12:16 PM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
You appear to be saying that families should have control over what goes on within the family, except when you disagree with it.
Can you clarify your stance, please? Are you saying parents should be allowed to invite people over to have sex with their small children, or not?
I think I expressed a fairly mainstream view of something considered broadly detrimental to a child, and not merely something I personally disagree with. You, on the other hand, by suggesting I am asserting personal beliefs, seem to be saying you think such behaviour is something the state should never intervene in.
The issue of what constitutes child abuse is a serious one. For me, I probably err more on the side of protecting familial and parental rights than the safety and well-being of the child. Nevertheless, I think encouraging pedophilia is over the line and grounds for state action to intervene.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 12:16 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Silent H, posted 01-20-2006 1:50 PM randman has replied
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 1:57 PM randman has replied
 Message 80 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 2:11 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 78 of 112 (280321)
01-20-2006 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Silent H
01-20-2006 1:50 PM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
Holmes, on the issue of religion, there is the matter of religious freedom guaranteed by the Constitution. I actually am quite willing to accept that mainstream opinion can be wrong, and that we should err on the side of family and parental rights.
In terms of thinking this is a single issue though, I am not sure where anyone would get that from my posts. For example, I would think serious physical abuse should be looked into by the state, but once again, I am not in the majority in that I would not take a child from parents just for some physical abuse. The child would have to be young enough and the abuse severe enough to pose a threat to the life and health of the child.
But that does not mean abuse cannot be real, and that there are not times that the state should intervene. If the majority decides that it's OK and acceptable practice to encourage pedophilia with thier small children, then probably the law should reflect the majority's wishes, but I certainly would counsel all families to avoid doing that.
However, if the majority decides a basic, well-established freedom is no longer proper, then the majority's wishes should not be codified into law and practice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Silent H, posted 01-20-2006 1:50 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Silent H, posted 01-20-2006 2:42 PM randman has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 79 of 112 (280323)
01-20-2006 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Chiroptera
01-20-2006 1:57 PM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
am asking that very question. Should parents be allowed to allow their children to have sex with adults?
I've already given my answer in stating that I do not believe pedophilia should be legalized. Now, will you answer and state your position?
Imagine that we lived in a society that accepted sex with children (such have existed, by the way, so this is not a stretch), and suppose that the best available research concluded that sex with adults was actually beneficial to children. Would you then agree that the state should encourage sex between children and adults, or is it your moral beliefs that are determining your stance here?
I do not think the state should "encourage" pedophilia, even in that situation, but if the society predominantly accepted pedophilia as normal, then I do not think the state should outlaw it, but at the same time, I would still say it is wrong and that families should not do that.
In some respects, I take the same position with illegal drug use. I do think it is right; don't want to encourage it, but considering how prevalent it's use is, I don't think the state should continue to make drug abuse illegal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 1:57 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 3:50 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 84 of 112 (280359)
01-20-2006 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Chiroptera
01-20-2006 3:50 PM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
Yet, you unquestionably have a sense of right and wrong; would I be correct if I were to say that you believe that the proper way to enact social change is to persuade the people at large that the policies in which you believe are beneficial? That state power should not be used against the wishes of the majority, even if it is for a "good cause"?
In general, you are correct, but still missing a little. For example, I think where someone's civil liberties are being violated such as under Jim Crow, that it is proper for the state to go against the morals and views of the majority.
However, I don't think the State should be in the business of trying to make better people, improving people morally, and trying to legislate morality in a manner that pits the State against the wills of the majority unless that will is causing harm to individual rights, etc,..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 3:50 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 85 of 112 (280362)
01-20-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Chiroptera
01-20-2006 2:11 PM


Re: u can start with answering basic questions
Religious issues are entirely different and protected by the COnstitution to a great extent. The thing about allowing the child to die due to a lack of medical treatment is that plenty of people die due to the medical treatment. There is risk and a judgment call. Families should be free to pursue the treatment they think is best whether prayer alone, traditional modern medicine, or alternative medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Chiroptera, posted 01-20-2006 2:11 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4920 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 111 of 112 (281643)
01-26-2006 1:34 AM


interesting link
A lot of women are serving hard time for having sex with teen males.
Page not found - WND

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by PaulK, posted 01-26-2006 2:51 AM randman has not replied

  
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