Another Socialist Victory in South America

Robbing their employees of a fair salary? Why do evos here seem to be so left-wing?

Personally I think this is an overly simplistic and dubious concept but it has been suggested that liberal politics often correlate with the level of education one recieves.It is well established now that a large number of universities have faculties which lean heavily towards the left, and it may be simply that a long term exposure to such an environment makes one predisposed to hold liberal opinions on a number of issues.Conversely it may be that a more liberal outlook predisposes one to further study, particularly in the liberal arts or humanities, than those who tend towards the right.I don't know what the causes are but there is some evidence that these trends do appear to exist.Many of the 'evos' here, myself included, have had a long period of university education or indeed are still in academia, so this may be one reason that many of us skew to the left. Also those of us from the UK probably tend to have more left wing politics any way, at least in relation to the American right.TFFN,WK

Or, alternativly, intelligent and well-trained people who've been exposed to both a depth of information and the conceptual tools to comprehend it - as is required to understand and defend the theory of evolution - are able to discern that the philosophies and ideals commonly described as "left-wing" are actually correct, and the ideas of the "right-wing" are not.This would explain why right-wing ideas never succeed in the marketplace of ideas, and why right-wingers must rise to power via election fraud, duplicity, and by taking advantage of contentious social issues while never doing anything to actually correct them.The less education you have, the more likely you are to vote Republican. A fact recently pointed out to me by a Republican. Now, then, either one of two things is true: either there are few barriers to education for those with the talent and intelligence for it, or there's a lot more barriers than Republicans are prepared to admit. If we're to believe Republicans themselves, who are always so sure that anybody can get into college who's willing to work for it, then we're forced to conclude that people who vote Republican are considerably more likely to be dumb and/or lazy. QED.

You'd think a good understanding of economics would make academic types lean right, towards a free market and trade, and not the other way around. It seems a lot of science folks that are evos advocate pretty much straight-up socialism, which seems very odd considering socialism had been such a miserable failurein the 20th century.

So the Republican party is both the party of the rich and poorly educated, eh?Let me ask you something. You think most upperm middle class to wealthy people, professionals like doctors, lawyers, accountants, and small business people, are more poorly educated?

Well, you could hardly have a successful party of just victimizers; you need victims, too. No surprise that they targeted the people the least likely to be able to see through their manipulations. No, but then, those people are mostly liberal.

quote:

---

Many of the 'evos' here, myself included, have had a long period of university education or indeed are still in academia, so this may be one reason that many of us skew to the left.

---

Well, that may be true in general; however, I switched from right to left when I was still in high school. Anecdotal, so make of it what you will.

---

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I will agree that you've made the point that Evo has said that he will not steer his country in the direction of Castro, I probably got a little overboard on that. And RAZD, I said that another country's people had been suckered into the control of socialists. They chose to elect Evo, unless evidence is ever discovered that says otherwise. Thier loss.Oh well, I expected criticism and I'm thankful for it. I personally thought you guys would find something and crucify me. But I have a few more things to say:Yes, he does have every right to legalize cocoa, and I didn't say that there's no alternative products that can be made from the cocoa plant. There's plenty. But, if you grow cocoa, who are you going to sell it to? The guy who wants to make shampoo or toothpaste who will pay you $100 a bag, or the cocaine producer who'll pay you $1000 per bag? What would you do?Meanwhile, I agree with your point about my "I'll still get my check" comment. Plenty of corporate bosses don't do their jobs and just ensure that they stay in their current positions once they've gotten their stable salaries that they're looking for. And with capitalism, bad stuff (financially) can happen anyway. (ENRON, WORLDCOM, etc.) And someone would probably work because of what they like to do. I stand corrected.I will also acknowledge that the main problem is demand over here. As long as there is demand on the black market, there will be supply. The best way to deal with demand here, in my opinion, is to provide a program for all druggies to get off of the junk, and when they can go without it for a month or two under strict observation, let 'em go, and then if they're caught on drug use offenses again, they get hard time in jail. Most drug users start out just using it for pleasure. If they can be caught before they're really addicted, making it very, very inconvenient for them to get caught may change their minds about what they're venturing into before its too late.But I'm venturing a little away from my point. Despite the fact that Evo Morales has said that he doesn't want to steer Bolivia into the direction of Cuban-style socialism, he has been spending as much time as possible lately trying to better relations with Venezuela (particularly just Chavez) and moving towards what that country is doing. And now the military is controlled by people who are grateful to Evo. I said before that if Evo wanted to take real power as Castro did, (wait forget Castro, Lenin) his only obstacle would be the military. Not any more. Coincidence? Definitely possible. But its also certainly possible that Evo has a few plans for Bolivia that do not involve "liberal" socialism. If you see a goose, but it looks like a duck, then its probably a duck. Or however that proverb goes.Wiseman45This message has been edited by wiseman45, 01-30-2006 12:56 PM

Most doctors and small business people are liberal??What world do you live in, crash?

You might have to look specifically at economists to see such a trend. In terms of wholesale revolutions such as those in China and Russia, assuming you don't differntiate between communism and socialism, perhaps but there have been a number of socialist governments and many arguably socialist policies which have been successful.It is very hard to tell where any one specifc ideology has succeeded or failed as they are never set up in a controlled way. If your laissez-fair free market economy runs into problems because of crippling social inequality then any governent is going to have to step in with regulation at some stage unless they want to find themselves being marched to the guillotine. Similarly no communist state is going to be able to dissociate itself entirely from the workings of international capital unless it operates a wholly isolationist policy.Have there been any states which haven't operated with such an accomodated ideology, no matter what lip service they may pay to their platonic ideal?TTFN,WK

quote:

---

Despite the fact that Evo Morales has said that he doesn't want to steer Bolivia into the direction of Cuban-style socialism, he has been spending as much time as possible lately trying to better relations with Venezuela (particularly just Chavez) and moving towards what that country is doing.

---

Since Chavez is making a great deal of progress in improving the lives of the Venezuelan people, this is not a bad thing.-

quote:

---

I said before that if Evo wanted to take real power as Castro did, (wait forget Castro, Lenin) his only obstacle would be the military. Not any more.

---

Another interpretation is that if Evo wanted to protect the democratic processes in Bolivia then he would do well to remove those potentially hostile to democracy and remake the military into one that is subservient to the civilian government.

---

"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

A good understanding of history would lead academics to understand that rightist economic policies have been repeatedly tried in the past, and have resulted in disasterous failures. "Tulipmania", "The South Sea Bubble", and the 1929 crash all come to mind.

They are more narrowly educated.

Than scientists?

Do you have the data to substantiate your original assertion that doctors, lawyers, and small businesspersons are predominantly conservative or vote Republican? No?Well, I do:

quote:

---

In the 1960s and 1970s, political events and polling data indicated a significant rise in liberal and dissenting political attitudes among American professionals.These data seem to run counter to the historically typical connection between social privilege and conservative politics.

---

Just a moment...