What we must accept if we accept evolution Part 2

The only point about the ToE that is part of the argument here is its treating suffering and death as natural. The Good God is not compatible with that idea. Nothing has been said about the creation of human beings. This point alone, about bloody death-driven Nature, makes the case.

I don't believe in that view of God. That is your view, and apparently that view is quite compatible with the ToE, as all gods who promote evil are.I believe, however, that everything God does is good, and that He did not cause suffering and death, sin did. Therefore my view of God is incompatible with the ToE, which treats suffering and death as natural.

You wanted to argue this on pure beliefs before, so let's do that.I believe that God is pure goodness, that he did not make a world full of suffering and death. That God is not compatible with the ToE.If you believe in that God AND in the ToE you are contradicting yourself.

Death was not part of God's creation. It is part of the ToE, in fact essential to it, it is driven by death.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 09:37 AM

And according to the Bible too.This is the SIMPLEST possible point I'm making that everybody is refusing to recognize. Why don't you all fight with Robin when he says it? Does he say it that much more neatly? Maybe so. Death and suffering are intrinsic to evolution.

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Death and suffering are alien to a good God, the God the Bible describes.

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To accept evolution we must accept either atheism or an evil or incompetent God. This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 09:48 AM

If you want to believe that, fine, that is your God, not mine. Mine is a good God and mine is incompatible with the ToE. Yours has no problem with the ToE.

I believe some Indian tribes consider perfection to be a challenge to the gods. Humility requires bad rhymes and scansion. This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 10:36 AM

Death and suffering came with sin. That's not God's doing.

This thread is not about bible interpretations. My God is incompatible with evolution no matter which other versions are compatible. You can't tell me what I believe.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 10:38 AM

I'm sorry I thought it was clear I knew you were agreeing with me. Maybe I should have said thank you. THANK YOU. I was making some small other point which I've forgotten in all this confusion.But yes THANK YOU.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 10:07 AM

Lots of unintentional ambiguities and slights and oversights come with the 'net. Wish I could unsay a lot of things.But anyway I'm glad we sorted that out.

Akshully I kind of like the way the couplet falls apart at the end. Ever so little. The scansion isn't all that bad, just a teeny extra syllable there, which I could have eliminated with another half second's thought. And I LIKE that bad rhyme. But I will aim for better things next time. Thank you for the warning.

I would simply like to point out that this is a personal attack on me and off topic. It doesn't REALLY matter, this is Just For The Record.My God IS the Christian God.I'm used to jar's character assassinations, and may even be getting to the point that I consider them an honor. He is going to be defended no matter what violations of the Forum Guidelines he commits, which he does routinely, so again, this is Merely For The Record.His tack on this thread has been to insist that I have not argued my case but merely asserted it. He said it over and over no matter how many times he was corrected. This is bullying and he was wrong. I made my case.I will repeat my case:The God of traditional Christianity made a universe of peace and comfort for His creatures. Suffering and death are alien to His character. They came with opposition to Him by His human creatures. Suffering and death are not natural. Evolution on the other hand REQUIRES suffering and death. It is a major way genetic selection occurs.THEREFORE the Biblical God as TRADITIONAL CHRISTIANITY worships Him, is incompatible with evolution.This means that believing in a loving personal Creator God AND the ToE is a logical contradiction.The case has been made.

That's OK by me. At some point I hope RR will enter the discussion and clean the whole mess up. BUT I would like to point out again that ALL versions of God besides the God of love and care for His creation ARE compatible with the ToE. ONLY the personal God of love is not.SO, once again, if anybody THINKS he believes in this loving personal God AND the ToE, he is believing a contradiction.GOD'S LOVE IS DEFINED HERE AS NOT CREATING LIVING THINGS TO SUFFER AND DIE.AND, the other point is that, practically speaking, atheism IS the most logical inference from the ToE, and in fact the most common. Nobody claims to believe in an evil God, and only a few believe in the weak or Deistic God, the only kinds of god compatible with the ToE.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 04:07 PM

I am honored to be so thoroughly misrepresented and vilified.This message has been edited by Faith, 01-31-2006 04:11 PM