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Author
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Topic: Is it 'boring' being God?
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Re: Back to the point ):|
Hi D,
I'm just assuming God is perfect, Well, I believe that being perfect is a prerequisite for a god.
and a perfect being can't create something that is imperfect. I would disagree because this nullifies your first premise. If God is perfect then God can do anything, thus He must be able to create something that is imperfect or there is something that He cannot do.
We made the choice, with temptation but we still did. Even though the dice were loaded well in God's favour. God keeping valuable information from Adam and Eve is not really a very nice thing to do, how can they make an informed choice?
Edit: no I don't have a reference, like I said I'm just assuming As long as you are aware that the Bible contradicts your assumption. Also, when you say we were created 'perfect', what exactly do you mean by 'perfect'? I think different people have different definitions of 'perfect'. Brian.
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Hal Jordan
Inactive Member
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Message 122 of 207 (283074)
02-01-2006 7:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
01-12-2006 9:08 PM
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The Q Continuum
Topic then, would it be a boring existence being a God, given that you know everything that is going to happen, and you are capable of doing anything that you want to. I would think that if I were God and that I knew everything (past, present and future) and could be anywhere, then yes, I would be very bored. Without the possibility of loss or failure (perfection), what would there be except boredom? Good topic, by the way.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Brian, posted 01-12-2006 9:08 PM | | Brian has not replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 123 of 207 (283133)
02-01-2006 11:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Brian
02-01-2006 2:55 AM
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Re: Back to the point ):|
quote:
Well, I believe that being perfect is a prerequisite for a god.
actually it's having all the omni's
quote:
I would disagree because this nullifies your first premise. If God is perfect then God can do anything, thus He must be able to create something that is imperfect or there is something that He cannot do.
sorry, when I say can't I mean won't 
quote:
Even though the dice were loaded well in God's favour. God keeping valuable information from Adam and Eve is not really a very nice thing to do, how can they make an informed choice?
what information?
quote:
As long as you are aware that the Bible contradicts your assumption. Also, when you say we were created 'perfect', what exactly do you mean by 'perfect'? I think different people have different definitions of 'perfect'.
where does it contradict me. morally perfect.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Brian, posted 02-01-2006 2:55 AM | | Brian has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 124 by Brian, posted 02-01-2006 3:53 PM | | dorkfrommarn has replied |
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4985 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: 10-22-2002
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Not quite perfect
Hi,
actually it's having all the omni's I think that is what 'perfect' means when referring to a god.
sorry, when I say can't I mean won't. No probs, but why do you arrive at this conclusion?
what information? The meaning of good and the meaning of evil are two pretty big factors in the Fall. Neither Adam nor Eve knew that disobeying God was a bad thing since they didn't know what bad was until after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. There is also the problem of whether or not they knew what 'die' meant as well.
where does it contradict me. In the Book of Genesis, on the 6th creation day. Gen.1:24-31 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground”everything that has the breath of life in it”I give every green plant for food." And it was so. God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning”the sixth day. It was "very good", which isn't the same as perfect.
morally perfect. Yet they were created with the ability to tell lies and disobey? I think 'morally perfect' is a very subjective term, but are we really told anything about Adam and Eve's moral standards in the Bible? Brian.
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Message 125 of 207 (283239)
02-01-2006 4:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 124 by Brian
02-01-2006 3:53 PM
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Re: Not quite perfect
Hey,
Brian writes: I think that is what 'perfect' means when referring to a god. Sorry, most of the people I talk to refer to perfect the way I mean.
Brian writes: No probs, but why do you arrive at this conclusion? I think It's part of the society I grew up in. A lot of times people will say "cant" instead of "wont" since from a personal perspective can get confusing. Aorry if that didn't make any sense, I'm really tired right now.
Brian writes: The meaning of good and the meaning of evil are two pretty big factors in the Fall. Neither Adam nor Eve knew that disobeying God was a bad thing since they didn't know what bad was until after they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. There is also the problem of whether or not they knew what 'die' meant as well.
for an example lets say you tell a child not to do something, but they don't understand why because they wouldn't understand it. We are infinitely more ignorant than God, so there's a lot that he doesn't tell us yet. I think God made it pretty clear that bad things were going to happen if Adam & Eve had disobeyed.
Brian writes: God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning”the sixth day. It was "very good", which isn't the same as perfect. I don't think he was talking about morally perfect. and also there's the fact that back when this was writen "very good" could have mean't the same thing perfect, just a thought because of the language differences.
Brian writes: nathan writes: morally perfect. Yet they were created with the ability to tell lies and disobey? God has the ability too, Jesus was tempted by satan. The difference is God is more powerful than satan, so he was able to resist him. This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-01-2006 04:45 PM This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-02-2006 02:12 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 124 by Brian, posted 02-01-2006 3:53 PM | | Brian has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4136 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Re: Not quite perfect
for an example lets say you tell a child not to do something, but they don't understand why because they wouldn't understand it. We are infinitely more ignorant than God, so there's a lot that he doesn't tell us yet. I think God made it pretty clear that bad things were going to happen if Adam & Eve had disobeyed. where did it say adam and eve knew what would happen? god says they would die if they ate from the tree, the text doesn't say they knew death, or right from wrong, and by the way what does the first part of this paragraph have to do with anything?
I don't think he was talking about morally perfect. and also there's the fact that back when this was writen "very good" could have mean't the same thing perfect, just a thought because of the language differences.
or maybe the writers wouldn't call it perfect?, what fact? its not a fact unless you can back it up
God has the ability too, Jesus was tempted by satan. The difference is God is more powerful than satan, so he was able to resist him.
and this has what to do with what brian asked?, if adam and eve could lie or obscure the truth then they were not created morally perfect, but human like everyone else on the subject of perfection in speaking of god, no religion i've heard of was proud of flaws in thier gods, every god i've read about is perfect to the worshipers, but i could consider the christian/jewish god a meglomaniac
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: Not quite perfect
where did it say adam and eve knew what would happen? god says they would die if they ate from the tree, the text doesn't say they knew death, or right from wrong, and by the way what does the first part of this paragraph have to do with anything? I didn't say that they knew what death was. And second I was giving an illustration to show why God didn't tell Adam and Eve why they weren't supposed to eat from the tree.
or maybe the writers wouldn't call it perfect?, what fact? its not a fact unless you can back it up Look at my first sentence again, you just agreed with me. and I am sorry about saying "fact" that way, I exagerate like that sometimes. But please be more polite when telling someone they've missused a word, It's really not that big of a deal. And also you'll see in that sentence I used "could have" not did.
and this has what to do with what brian asked?, if adam and eve could lie or obscure the truth then they were not created morally perfect, but human like everyone else on the subject of perfection in speaking of god, no religion i've heard of was proud of flaws in thier gods, every god i've read about is perfect to the worshipers, but i could consider the christian/jewish god a meglomaniac In the begining Adam and Eve had the choice. They were not bound to anything. But humans today are bound to satan by birth. Thats the difference. I said God could, not did. thats like saying being able to murder and murdering are the same thing. And if I missunderstood you, then sorry.
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Back to the topic...if anybody can remember
Hey people, I think that God is not bored, because of the trinity he has relationships with parts himself; confusing, yes . The reason for creating humans was to have more people to glorify him, he's an egomaniac; but the only one with the right to be  I didn't read it all the way through, but this looks like a good definition of the Trinity, if you have any questions ask the people who wrote the article because they sure know more than me This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-02-2006 02:27 AM This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-02-2006 02:30 AM This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-02-2006 02:32 AM
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4136 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Re: Not quite perfect
n the begining Adam and Eve had the choice. They were not bound to anything. But humans today are bound to satan by birth. Thats the difference. I said God could, not did. thats like saying being able to murder and murdering are the same thing. And if I missunderstood you, then sorry. But they didn't understand the choices they made, so it would be like giving a baby a loaded weapon, they didn't realize that if they chose wrong they would suffer for it, as for being bound to satan if we have choice then we arn't bound to anything
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4136 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Re: Not quite perfect
sorry about that, but most of the people who come here make sweeping statements, that equal the truth no matter the contrary so i sometimes over look could have maybe
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: Not quite perfect
But they didn't understand the choices they made, so it would be like giving a baby a loaded weapon, they didn't realize that if they chose wrong they would suffer for it, as for being bound to satan if we have choice then we arn't bound to anything And although God didn't tell Adam and Eve why he didn't want them to eat the apple, but he did make sure they knew that he didn't. We do have free will but the sin of past generations has made it so satan has more and more power to influence us. but instead of bound to satan I guess "his influence is stronger over us" would be much better.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by ReverendDG, posted 02-02-2006 3:53 AM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member
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Re: Not quite perfect
hehe, no prob
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by ReverendDG, posted 02-02-2006 3:56 AM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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Message 133 of 207 (285814)
02-11-2006 8:56 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
01-12-2006 9:08 PM
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God? Are You Bored, yet?
Is It Boring, God?
Brian writes: I thought about this while composing a reply to Jar about God's omniscience and the Fall. Now, with God being omniscient, God would know beforehand that Adam and Eve would disobey His command not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, so their 'Fall' would not have been a surprise to God. Phat writes: Agreed. Not a surprise, but perhaps a dissappointment similar to a parent who watches their kid become a criminal,based on the decisions that the kid makes.
Moving to the New Testament and Jesus' death and resurrection. Now, I have heard many Christians claim that Jesus didn't know that He would come back to life three days after He 'died'. If we ignore this argument for now and concentrate on what Christians believe is the ultimate exampe of love, namely, sending your only son to die so that others have a path to salvation. How can we really admire God for this when he MUST have known that Jesus' 'death' was only a temporary inconvenience? Phat writes: He then also should surely have known that His freewill angel turned darkside devil, Lucifer, would be unable to counter this brilliant move of eternal sacrifice trumping sinful reality!
With these two examples in mind, how 'boring' an existence is it for God? He knows everything, can do anthing He wants, there are no surprises at all, and He knows that He is never going to die, it must be a nightmare. Phat writes: Well..does God think and feel as humans do? Good question.
This condition that God finds Himself in, could it make him angry, or affect His 'mental' condition? If God resents his omniscience and omnipotence, could this explain why He appears to be a blood thirsty barbarian in the Old Testament? Think about some of the stories in the Old Testament where God either slaughters thousands himself, or commands others to do His dirty work for Him, do these actions appear to be the work of a rational 'mind'?
I personally view the O.T. stories as writings of how man predicted and/or expected God to act and respond. It would be similar to IF we were writing a Bible today, and one chapter began thusly: King Dubya was a proud man whom publically professed to know the Lord, but he consulted with the merchants and the wealthy men in secret. "What shall I tell the people?" His advisors gathered around him and declared, "O King, surely our God is with you, and He despises evil. Send our Armies to the land of the Babylonians and secure for our people the liquid bones of the dinosaurs deep beneath the ground. God is with us and He desires our people to prosper." So the King ordered his men to pursue the wicked Prince Bin Laden and to search every cave, nook, and cranny in the land of the Afghans. Rocks rained from the sky and the people were terrified! The Prince escaped by another way, however, and gathered the people around him to rise up and lay in wait for the Amerikites whenever they passed through the towns. The King of Babylon was overthrown, and his image was toppled in the public square. God commanded the Amerikites to slay every man, woman, and child who held allegience to either the Prince or the King of Babylon, now captured and taken by his own people. The Babylonians were wary of the Amerikites, however, for they worshipped strange gods and said that they heard from Allah, the Lord of the people. In the above "example" that I wrote, could we conclude that the scribe (himself an Amerikite) was accurate when he said that God commanded the Amerikites to slay everyone? Did God actually say to do that?  Personally, Brian, I think that we all provide a soap opera for God to watch! He stands outside of time and "pretends" not to know how the soap opera will end---just as we do when we watch reruns of movies we have seen! He finds little amusement in the churches, but He laughs with the people in the pubs and at their jobs and livlihoods throughout the world. He seeks to infuse us with His Spirit, but were He to automatically make us choose it, That would be boring!
Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Brian, posted 01-12-2006 9:08 PM | | Brian has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 137 by Silent H, posted 02-12-2006 11:26 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1266 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: 01-12-2004
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Message 134 of 207 (285822)
02-11-2006 9:26 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
01-12-2006 9:08 PM
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No offense, but you are describing God as some sort of human. God cannot be defined by any words. Yet you raise an important question: What is the point to this life? I believe there is no answer to that question unfortunately... Why would a God create such a meaningless existence?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Brian, posted 01-12-2006 9:08 PM | | Brian has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 135 by Phat, posted 02-11-2006 9:35 AM | | Trump won has replied | | | Message 136 by Phat, posted 02-11-2006 9:46 AM | | Trump won has not replied | | | Message 165 by Brian, posted 02-16-2006 6:57 PM | | Trump won has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.0
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>>>>>>>>>>CSP<<<<<<<<<<<<<
CSPjr writes: No offense, but you are describing God as some sort of human. True, and I did not mean for the description to come across like that! Humans DID transcribe the O.T., and I am addressing Brian, who is a self professed atheist. I am challenging the assumption that the God of the O.T. is different than the God of Jesus Christ. Its the people who saw the perception differently---not that they could know since God in human form was not walking around talking to them. This message has been edited by Phat, 02-11-2006 08:06 AM
Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by Trump won, posted 02-11-2006 9:26 AM | | Trump won has replied |
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