Is there such thing as destiny

Hmmmm...lets ask Mr. Dictionary for a bit of clarification, shall we? They say that chance is where luck meets opportunity. A destiny, however, is a predetermined course of events. It has also been said that we become the decisions that we make. It appears that chance and destiny are opposite beliefs. Thats a big IF for you, Mike. How could we create our destiny IF there were no Creator? Are we creating our own lives? Does human wisdom, refined and polished over the years, explain the mechanisms of a universe so vast and complex of which we are but a tiny portion thereof? (This is for those who think that humans invented religion and, in fact, the idea of God Himself.) Whose fault is it that the person is starving? Has not God given civilized humans the ability to grow enough for themselves and others? I don't need to "defend" God...as if I as a mere dustspeck of creation can imply that He is unfair!
Based on our collective (as yet unagreed) planetary concept of God, He either is involved in our collective and individual destinys or He is'nt.
1) If He is, He has already given humans the basic instructions on how to get along. Don't be greedy. Don't try and raise up--rather---be humble and consider others (nations?) better than yourself and God will raise you up!Based just on that analogy, both the U.S. and Israel, the self proclaimed bastions of Gods "people"
are failing miserably.

---

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

Thanks for the replies, Phat and Omnivorous and others.I agree Phat, that people have the capability to not be greedy and help the starving. But they are greedy. I am not blaming God for this, I am wondering why he lets it happen when it is so saddening. "God is love" - well then, how can he stand it? How can he watch?Do you admitt, Phat, that if bad things happen, heaven is watching?If a man is stabbed in the street, and you stand over him watching him, and he asks, "why aren't you helping me", then couldn't it be argued that you were infact doing exactly what God does, by doing nothing?Yet Christ says your neighbour is the one who is the good samaritan, and Christ helped anyone. Anygood person would atleast want to help. Surely then, with Christ being good, he would want to help?(Perhaps this suggests the world is our problem). perhaps then, if we all seeked Christ, then these problems would be solved; as then, no one would want to do any evil.So my thoughts were that if Christ is omnipotent etc..that he would stop evil.Is it that God simply resides in heaven? Perhaps there is a great gulf between heaven and earth, in that, because God has made a universe of order, he won't generally break the rules?Yes, perhaps that's one possible answer. That he doesn't so much intervene, but has merely agreed to help if we ask, because we are incharge so to speak. Perhaps that's the answer. I'll let others take over this thread at this stage. I am content that we are partaking of theological speculation of which will bring no satisfactory conclusion.

I'm just wondering, what promise are you referring to? I don't recall a Bible verse where God promises NOT to usurp our free will, but maybe I missed something.

I can see how free will poses a problem for predestination, which I do not believe in, but why omnipotence? Or, what the bible says is, his ways are not our ways.I understand that now to some degree, in my walk.

It seems to me that as long as there is one will, there can be omnipotence.But once you create multiple free actors, that power is constrained, because some events will be determined by the freely willed actions of others.Conversely, if you can revoke the freedom of those actors, then the "free will" was only a passing illusion--free until it transgressed or displeased.

Great questions mike.I will share what I believe to be some truths, according to my faith.I never really contemplated destiny all that much, so I did some biblical research, and I will try to translate.Yes there is destiny.We are all destined to die.
We are all destined to meet God (if he exists).I do not believe in predestination at all, or have I read anything in the bible that would support predestination.However, I do believe that we were all created with a purpose.Finding your purpose in life is the key to happiness. We can find our purpose through God. I wouldn't stress to much about it either, because you probably already understand mostly what your purpose would be.Random acts?Not sure, is free will a random act?Free will means to me, that you can choose your destiny.
But free will does not mean you can be or do anything you want to do, it would seem we are limited based on who and what we are. Or limited by our purpose? Not to sure, because God can do some amazing things in your life, that you never thought possible. He has for me.So, no there is not a clear destiny in my life, other than my death.
Yes my destiny is based on my actions, but limited by my purpose to a degree.
No, its not God, but he had something to do with it.Destiny for a starving person?That's a real tough question, and I am not sure if I really know the answer.But I do believe that we are all responsible to a degree for this persons suffering. We are a human race after all. We have enough food on the planet to feed everyone.If there are 2 billion Christians on the planet, then why are there over 1 billion starving people?Was that starving person destined to be that way? I don't agree.
I'll take some of the blame.

He is made omnipotent by our free will.He is made strong in our weakness.Giving us free will does not limit his omnipotence.
Giving someone free will is an all-powerfull thing.Vowing to keep your promise is, to me, an even more all-powerful thing. This doesn not negate his omnipotence IMO.

Good morning! I am probably reading into this more than I should, but do you mean that destiny (which I took to mean was implied by God's omnipotence)exists by the people's collective free will?

I don't think so. Destiny does not equal God's omnipotence.The peoples collective free will does not add up to anything either,IMO.What I was doing was relating the verse that says he is made strong in our weakness.He wants to show us the way, his way. So I guess like I had to learn in life, the best way to learn something is by making the mistakes.When we finally come to terms with life, well me anyway, I found out that the better way of doing things, is to turn to him. That is the main reason we were created, to glorify him. (which is to just be myself, my true self)We glorify him, by going to him, and then using the gifts he gave us towards his purpose.(what he created us for)Forget about all the heaven and hell stuff, I don't think we should even worry too much about it. No-one on the earth has any right or authority to tell someone they are going to hell.Yes our free will is evidence of God's omnipotence, without it we would evolve like a tree, that has no choices, but to grow based on its surroundings.How great is our God.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 02-01-2006 07:47 AM

I confess I don't fully understand your response.But why do you insist on God being omnipotent? I can find no support for it in the Bible, even with the help of more knowledgable folks. I see God described biblically as "the most powerful" but not "all powerful"--perhaps you can point it out to me.Would it shake your faith to conclude that God might not be omnipotent, that God was mighty enough to create the universe yet had some limits on Her power? I'm not using the tired old arguments about God creating a rock She couldn't lift to argue atheism here, mind you, but rather following the idea I discussed above about God doing the best She could. Others have dismissed this a bit derisively as a "weak God" proposition, but I don't see creating the universe as a sign of weakness.Should an omnipotent God consider it a success if most of the free-will possessing souls She creates choose badly? Many of the angels rebelled, and, presumably, given the religious demographics of the globe, past and present, most people will not clear the bar into heaven but instead will spend an eternity in torment. One would think that even if granting free will, one would intend to give the free soul a pretty good shot at choosing well.Consider parents: they are certainly not omnipotent, but they have a great deal of influence on how their children turn out. When we see parents raise a large family of good people, we conclude, correctly I think, that they were raised by good and effective parents. When we see parents raise a large family of miscreants, we reasonably conclude they were either not very good or not very effective parents.When we see a mixed bag of parental results, we can reasonably conclude that they were both fairly good and fairly effective, but could not control every factor and influence. Our children presumably have free will, but are also the creations of their parents, faring better or worse, overall, depending on how well their parents perform.If we set the notions of God's omnipotence and one individual's free will side by side, either outcome--freely chosen good or ill--seems reasonable. But when we consider the entire family of free souls, with its large minority of fallen angels and large majority of hell-bound humans, the notion of an all-powerful loving parent becomes more problematic.This brings me back to necessity. God, like any good parent, would have done better by us if She could have; if She could not, then She is not omnipotent.This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 02-01-2006 09:28 AM

But I was replying to: Still not sure what that means, but it has interesting implications. I.E. God is powerful as long as we give him power....that's the road I thought you heading toward initially.This message has been edited by Hal Jordan, 02-01-2006 10:01 AM

Hi Riverat, I think these verses support the absolute sovereignty of God and predestination. I don't believe God predestines people against their will, but He works the will of that chosen person to conform to His will. Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.Eph 1:4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his presence. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself through Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will,Eph 1:11 In Christ we were also chosen when we were predestined according to the purpose of the one who does everything according to the intention of his will,Phi 2:13 For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.Joh 15:16 You didn't choose me, but I chose you. I have appointed you to go, to produce fruit that will last, and to ask the Father in my name to give you whatever you ask for.Rom 9:15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose I have raised you up, that I might show My power in you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth."
Rom 9:18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will, He hardens.Rom 9:19 You will then say to me, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
Rom 9:20 No, but, O man, who are you who replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to Him who formed it, Why have you made me this way?
Rom 9:21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction;
Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which He had before prepared to glory;

Sure, you do:Luk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed are ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
Luk 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.Luk 16:19 Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, faring sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 and a certain beggar named Lazarus was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table; yea, even the dogs come and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom: and the rich man also died, and was buried.
Luk 16:23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.Lam 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever;
Lam 3:32 for though He causes grief, yet He will have pity according to the multitude of His kindnesses.

Just awesome stuff, you have touched my heart.

I am destined not to believe in destiny.