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Author Topic:   Humanity's Stuggle With Death.
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 76 of 104 (283777)
02-03-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Trump won
02-03-2006 10:26 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
My take is that our survival advantage comes from our living in societies, working cooperatively to sustain ourselves. Our level of intelligence is mainly a social adaptation, for dealing with the complexities of social cooperation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Trump won, posted 02-03-2006 10:26 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Trump won, posted 02-04-2006 5:05 PM nwr has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 77 of 104 (283970)
02-04-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nwr
02-03-2006 11:19 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
what are the complexities of social cooperation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by nwr, posted 02-03-2006 11:19 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 02-04-2006 5:39 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 82 by nwr, posted 02-04-2006 8:29 PM Trump won has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 78 of 104 (283977)
02-04-2006 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Trump won
02-04-2006 5:05 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
getting along with your sister's boyfriends.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Trump won, posted 02-04-2006 5:05 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 79 of 104 (283992)
02-04-2006 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
02-04-2006 5:39 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
If life was about learning how to survive, what types of social complexities would arise?
This message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 02-04-2006 06:50 PM

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 Message 78 by jar, posted 02-04-2006 5:39 PM jar has replied

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 Message 85 by Phat, posted 02-05-2006 8:56 AM Trump won has replied

  
Funkaloyd
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 104 (284001)
02-04-2006 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Trump won
02-03-2006 10:26 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
Chris Porteus writes:
If this is purely a survival characteristic, then why does our intellect exceed homo habilis?
Homo habilis is extinct, that should tell you something.

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 81 of 104 (284013)
02-04-2006 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Trump won
02-04-2006 6:49 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
The biggest will relate to resources.
What resources to you think might lead to social complexity?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 82 of 104 (284025)
02-04-2006 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Trump won
02-04-2006 5:05 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
what are the complexities of social cooperation?
They are too complex to describe
I can give some examples. In class you are expected to raise your hand and wait for the teacher to acknowledge, before talking. When driving you are supposed to signal your intention to turn. There are many similar little rules we are supposed to follow.
Then we have to deall with all of the problems, such as you do something nice for a friend, and your friend takes it as an insult.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 83 of 104 (284033)
02-04-2006 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Trump won
02-04-2006 6:49 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
Tom is an ally of Dick.
Dick is an ally of Harry.
Tom hates Harry.
Harry is fairly neutral about Tom, but recognizes Tom's antipathy and resents it.
Harry has better tool making skills than anyone.
The three of them comprise the most influential subgroup.
The girls really like Tom, but don't care much for Harry.
A new kid, John, shows promise of even better tool making skills than Harry, but he isn't there yet; John is Dick's cousin.
Dick's sister, Mary, likes John, but Dick wants her to hang out with Harry because he wants some of those new tools Harry made.
Mary finds more good tubers than any of the other ladies, and they tend to do what she wants.
Tom suggests to Dick that they take out Harry and steal his cool tools; besides, John can probably duplicate those tools. But Dick knows that Mary's closest friend, Sue, has her eyes on Harry.
Social complexity?
Dude, any high school or soap opera will illustrate just how convoluted things can get.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 84 of 104 (284096)
02-05-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Omnivorous
02-04-2006 8:47 PM


Re: regarding our intellect
quote:
Dude, any high school or soap opera will illustrate just how convoluted things can get.
Yeah, I hate it when one of my friends is posessed by the devil, or is captured by terrorists, or drug cartel thugs, and the like.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 85 of 104 (284106)
02-05-2006 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Trump won
02-04-2006 6:49 PM


Survival of the Phattest
CSPjr writes:
If life was about learning how to survive, what types of social complexities would arise?
Lying.
Murder.
Greed.
Hmmmm lets ask Mr. Dictionary....
Websters writes:
1socialadj 1 : marked by pleasant companionship with one's friends 2 : naturally living and breeding in organized communities <~ insects> 3 : of or relating to human society <~ institutions> 4 : of, relating to, or based on rank in a particular society <~ circles>; also : of or relating to fashionable society socially adv
Rank? Status? Reminds me of a couple of scriptures:
NIV writes:
Matt 20:16--"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
Matt 16:25-26-- For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it.What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?
Websters writes:
survive vb survived; surviving 1 : to remain alive or existent 2 : outlive, outlast survival n survivor \-v-ver\ n

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 87 by ramoss, posted 02-07-2006 9:11 AM Phat has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1239 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 86 of 104 (284520)
02-06-2006 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
02-05-2006 8:56 AM


Re: Survival of the Phattest
Wow, I appreciate your post Phat. It rings so true to me, right now especially.

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 87 of 104 (284557)
02-07-2006 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
02-05-2006 8:56 AM


Re: Survival of the Phattest
You are so concentrating on just the negative. You would also get community spirit and altruism.. help thy neighbor,and he will help you.
Humans evolved as social animals, and social animals help others in their group. It helps the survivial of the group.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 02-05-2006 8:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 88 of 104 (284596)
02-07-2006 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by ramoss
02-07-2006 9:11 AM


Re: Survival of the Phattest
ramoss writes:
You are so concentrating on just the negative.
Perhaps my worldview can be misused to accentuate the negative, but I certainly am no idealist, either! The people of the world are not gonna just gather around in a circle holding hands and singing "We Are The World" anytime soon.
There will be the challenge of how to handle human traits of greed, envy, and lies. On a planet with limited resources where some will be asked to sacrifice for the good of everyone, tempers will be likely to flare!
On the other hand, there is no theocratic solution, either. The answer will be found within your heart, if you are honest enough to allow it to happen.(Im talking to myself as well! )

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by ramoss, posted 02-07-2006 9:11 AM ramoss has not replied

  
Michael
Member (Idle past 4637 days)
Posts: 199
From: USA
Joined: 05-14-2005


Message 89 of 104 (285852)
02-11-2006 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by robinrohan
02-03-2006 7:46 PM


Why does truth matter (in this context)?
I believe that, for some, faith can be very rewarding.
Rewarding?
The only thing that matters is whether what they believe is true or not.
I'm not sure--it seems to me that you may be playing the devil's advocate. If so, fine, I'll play along. My apologies if I am wrong.
I have struggled with the following question for a fair bit of time: do the faithful really believe? Or is whatever need that faith fills for them so great that they have to believe? I hope the distinction is clear. Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere.
I think that the faithful are compelled to believe by a need. I can see no other reason why otherwise rational people (in some cases, at least) can accept the fantasy of their faith, in spite overwhelming contradictory evidence (except for the more liberal of the faithful--not sure how to work them in yet--my model may be too simple). If the need is so great that they can maintain the fantasy, I have to believe that their belief is rewarding to them. Otherwise, why believe? If they are gaining something by their belief, who am I to convince them that they are wrong? Hell, I could be wrong (about 1 in a googleplex chance, I think).
The problem with faith comes when its adherents try to push their ideas/philosophies onto the people around them. I have no patience with that. Otherwise, as long as they are doing no harm due to their faith, I don't care what they believe. But if asked, I will give my opinion.
Maybe this discussion should go to another topic.
Cheers.*
*abe
This message has been edited by Michael, 02-11-2006 04:09 PM

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joshua221 
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 104 (286276)
02-13-2006 7:23 PM


If God is God
If God is everything that I believe God to be, he would not have designed mankind through evolution.
-backed through the glimpses of God within my life experiences
-bibically supported, for his love for us
All of the things that the theory of evolution promotes, or changes within human society, and social interaction, loss of significance, I have come to realize that God would not do it.
It has nothing to do what I believe is beautiful, or what I think just couldn't happen because mankind would not be significant, while posting over and over, about such material. I have finally realized that GOD is what it was all about, not me, not you, not humanity, it all came back to GOD, because GOD would not do that to us. Not because we feel so horrible discussing a world governed by the theory of evolution and all of it's matters, but because GOD would never do that to us, because he loves us, because we are semblances of him, because he knows our every moments are significant.
God would have it no other way, so why should we believe the hype?

Replies to this message:
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 Message 92 by ReverendDG, posted 02-14-2006 12:45 AM joshua221 has replied

  
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