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Author Topic:   What we must accept if we accept evolution Part 2
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 218 of 301 (283436)
02-02-2006 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Faith
02-02-2006 12:10 PM


Re: The ToE and Gods
Animals and humans only. I don't include plants or microorganisms, and I don't think any pain, even of stubbing the toe, existed in Eden.
I'm not trying to play "gotcha", but I did genuinely have a question about this. Pain exists as a signal of injury from the body. Undetected injuries can result in tissue necrosis - this is common in persons who have lost sensation in the extremities, like sufferers of leprosy - and so the body warns us of injury via pain.
How did it work in Eden? If you stub your toe and it doesn't hurt, what prevents you from suffering even greater injury? Or is it just that no injury occurs? Rocks leap out of the way at the approach of your foot?
Like I said I'm not trying to put you on the spot, and I don't intend to press this as a discussion. I was just hoping you'd briefly expand your thoughts on this, if you felt like doing it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Faith, posted 02-02-2006 12:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 02-02-2006 1:23 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 221 of 301 (283472)
02-02-2006 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
02-02-2006 1:23 PM


Re: The ToE and Gods
Fair enough; thanks for the response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 02-02-2006 1:23 PM Faith has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 261 of 301 (284050)
02-04-2006 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Faith
02-04-2006 9:39 PM


Re: on Belief
But I always feel impatiently like saying: Do you really not just KNOW that you are an immortal soul?
Yes. Do you remember things that happened before you were born? Doesn't basic symmetry indicate that you won't remember things that happen after you die?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Faith, posted 02-04-2006 9:39 PM Faith has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 287 of 301 (284453)
02-06-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Faith
02-06-2006 4:48 PM


If humanity is nothing more than something the physical universe tossed up by accident it most CERTAINLY implies NO PURPOSE to our existence, and it is psychologically FELT to imply no purpose too.
I just don't get it, Faith. I literally don't see the connection between "not having a purpose provided by Providence" and "not having a purpose at all."
What, in your view, is inherent in the idea of "purpose" that prevents one's purpose from being something they determine for themselves?
Again, just because WE can invent purposes doesn't change this fact.
I don't understand why you so sneeringly dismiss the idea of a self-determined purpose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Faith, posted 02-06-2006 4:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 02-06-2006 5:51 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 290 of 301 (284460)
02-06-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
02-06-2006 5:51 PM


It's wide open, not at all being prevented, but the opposite -- there is no FORMAL OBJECTIVE purpose to humanity, so all these subjective invented purposes ARE what we have.
Well, yeah. So?
Invented purpose is all we had in the first place. We were simply mistaken about the source of that purpose.
But the fact that there's no universal purpose for humanity was known long before Darwinism; the evidence for this would be all the people who wandered around, wondering what the hell the purpose of humanity was supposed to be. The fact that all these people had to ask is the proof that there never was one.
What we DON'T have under Darwinism is an OBJECTIVE purpose for humanity.
We don't have it under anything else, either. Why single evolution out for not providing something that it was never supposed to provide, something that nothing provides?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 02-06-2006 5:51 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by robinrohan, posted 02-06-2006 6:20 PM crashfrog has not replied

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