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Author Topic:   most scientific papers are wrong?
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 113 (240003)
09-02-2005 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by randman
09-02-2005 2:23 PM


Re: wow!
What rant?
There is no rant there. It's questions that you should have considered before even posting the thread as a PNT.
All of the questions are still valid and YOU need to answer them.
It appears that you are simply going to use this thread to return to your assertions of old pet predudices of yours that you have never been able to support.
Sorry, but so far all you're doing is whining. Try answering the questions.
Highly likely it is true but...
so what? What is there here to discuss?
Did you even read the paragraph following the two you quoted?
Do you even have a clue what the scientific method entails?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by randman, posted 09-02-2005 2:23 PM randman has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 113 (240051)
09-02-2005 5:56 PM


Even though randman is unable to participate ...
this does have the potential for a reasonable discussion.
The study could be important because it points to one of the great strengths of the scientific method.
Studies are published. Information is freely distributed.
That change is enormous. Before the advent of the scientific method ideas were held back, hoarded as secrets. Today we see just the opposite, the ideas are placed out before the community.
The article says that many or even most may turn out to be wrong. That's probably true. But that is also one of the strengths of the system and method. By placing the ideas out in the public discussion area, others can test them and try to replicate the studies. It is that step, the replication, not opinion, not beliefs, not authority, not dogma, that determines which are valid and which are wrong.
It is those two features,
  • early distribution and discussion of ideas
  • that must then be independantly confirmed and replicated
that makes the scientific method so robust and successful.
Far from being a condemnation of the process, the article is infact a celebration of the scientific method.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 09-02-2005 6:11 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 36 of 113 (284333)
02-06-2006 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by randman
02-05-2006 5:56 PM


Still need an answer to past messages.
Several points were raised in Message 16 that you have not addressed.
The Scientific Method includes early distribution of ideas and findings. They are published as widely as possible throughout the community so that they can be tested by others.
If many or even most scientific papers turn out to be wrong, what is the problem?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by randman, posted 02-05-2006 5:56 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by randman, posted 02-06-2006 12:32 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 113 (284425)
02-06-2006 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by randman
02-06-2006 12:32 PM


Re: Still need an answer to past messages.
randman, other than repeating assertions that you have NEVER been able to support, what does that have to do with the question I asked?
What difference does it make if many, most even, scientific papers are wrong?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by randman, posted 02-06-2006 12:32 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by randman, posted 02-06-2006 5:57 PM jar has not replied
 Message 54 by randman, posted 02-07-2006 2:30 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 113 (284628)
02-07-2006 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by randman
02-07-2006 2:30 PM


Re: Still need an answer to past messages.
No randman. You have not answered the question asked.
Let me try to work through this with you.
The question is "What problem exists with publishing findings even if wrong?"
What is OT is your repetitious Haeckeling which has nothing to do with the issue.
So let us go back to the quetion.
Is it possible to question or challenge a finding that is not published?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by randman, posted 02-07-2006 2:30 PM randman has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 76 of 113 (284943)
02-08-2006 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by randman
02-08-2006 12:32 AM


still waiting for randman's answers to questions raised earlier in the thread
and again in Message 58.
Is it possible to question or challenge a finding that is not published?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by randman, posted 02-08-2006 12:32 AM randman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by inkorrekt, posted 02-08-2006 10:19 PM jar has replied
 Message 87 by Wounded King, posted 02-09-2006 5:46 PM jar has replied
 Message 111 by inkorrekt, posted 03-01-2006 9:28 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 78 of 113 (285098)
02-08-2006 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by inkorrekt
02-08-2006 10:19 PM


Re: still waiting for randman's answers to questions raised earlier in the thread
Very good. Now let's see what randman answers.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by inkorrekt, posted 02-08-2006 10:19 PM inkorrekt has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 88 of 113 (285304)
02-09-2006 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Wounded King
02-09-2006 5:46 PM


Re: still waiting for randman's answers to questions raised earlier in the thread
I would include the peer review process, conferences and the whole concept of open access to ideas as part of the publishing procedure.
The idea is that unless an idea is out there for criticism, it cannot be confirmed or falsified.
But let's see what randman says.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Wounded King, posted 02-09-2006 5:46 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
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