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Author Topic:   most scientific papers are wrong?
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 56 of 113 (284618)
02-07-2006 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by NosyNed
02-07-2006 2:34 PM


Re: RM wrong still
Wrong on what point?
1.Do you deny he faked his data?
2. Do you deny evos taught the Biogenetic law as factual even when it wasn't? and did so for a full 50 years after everyone in the field knew it was wrong?
3. Do you deny that recapitulation theory, also taught, is wrong?
4. How about the claims of the phylotypic stage, which was based on Haeckel's data according to Richardson in his 1997 study?
Exactly how am I wrong on any of my claims relative to Haeckel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NosyNed, posted 02-07-2006 2:34 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by NosyNed, posted 02-07-2006 2:43 PM randman has replied
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 60 of 113 (284631)
02-07-2006 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Percy
02-07-2006 3:20 PM


Re: replication?
Textbooks print what is accepted mainstream science which in turn stems from scientific papers and scientists. Richardson pointed out that the claims of a phylotypic stage seemed to be taken on faith, and that Haeckel was the largest and most relied on data to support that claim. So textbooks were merely reflecting the views of evo scientists.
some reference material for you to check out
Contrary to recent claims
that all vertebrate embryos pass through a stage when
they are the same size, we find a greater than 10-fold
variation in greatest length at the tailbud stage. Our survey
seriously undermines the credibility of Haeckel’s
drawings, which depict not a conserved stage for vertebrates,
One puzzling feature of the debate in this field is that
while many authors have written of a conserved embryonic
stage, no one has cited any comparative data in support
of the idea. It is almost as though the phylotypic
stage is regarded as a biological concept for which no
proof is needed.
MK Rich Ardson - MK Blog Rich

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Percy, posted 02-07-2006 3:20 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Percy, posted 02-07-2006 4:51 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 61 of 113 (284632)
02-07-2006 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by NosyNed
02-07-2006 2:43 PM


have to be wrong, eh?
That's all you can say?
some reference material for you to check out
Contrary to recent claims
that all vertebrate embryos pass through a stage when
they are the same size, we find a greater than 10-fold
variation in greatest length at the tailbud stage. Our survey
seriously undermines the credibility of Haeckel’s
drawings, which depict not a conserved stage for vertebrates,
One puzzling feature of the debate in this field is that
while many authors have written of a conserved embryonic
stage, no one has cited any comparative data in support
of the idea. It is almost as though the phylotypic
stage is regarded as a biological concept for which no
proof is needed.
MK Rich Ardson - MK Blog Rich
The claim of a phylotypic stage is refuted by Richardson in this paper, which also details some of the errors and fraud of Haeckel's depictions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by NosyNed, posted 02-07-2006 2:43 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by NosyNed, posted 02-07-2006 4:01 PM randman has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 63 of 113 (284643)
02-07-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by NosyNed
02-07-2006 4:01 PM


Re: have to be wrong, eh?
One puzzling feature of the debate in this field is that
while many authors have written of a conserved embryonic
stage, no one has cited any comparative data in support
of the idea. It is almost as though the phylotypic
stage is regarded as a biological concept for which no
proof is needed.
Read it again, ned.

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 Message 62 by NosyNed, posted 02-07-2006 4:01 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4926 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 69 of 113 (284827)
02-08-2006 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Percy
02-07-2006 4:51 PM


Re: replication?
When you guys start coming clean about Haeckel instead of denying reality, then maybe it won't come up so much. But interestingly, many of you just cannot admit the truth of Haeckel's forgeries, false claims, etc,...and so, imo, play a role in perpetuating myths.
In terms of the OP, there was a recent paper claiming that a certain gene expressed in the thymus was also expressed in gills, and that was passed on as strong evidence of "deep homology." I raised a lot of questions which I believe would need to be answered prior to the claim of deep homology, but inn typical fashion, evos were all over the paper.
Imo, this jumping to conclusions is endemic of evolutionism, and thus the claim of most papers being incorrect, when evos tend to tout unsubstantiated claims (like widely publicizing Pakicetus as aquatic or semi-aquatic before enough data was in), is an important consideration.
Perhaps if evos weren't publicizing wild claims on the cover of Science as they did with Pakicetus, it wouldn't be such a big deal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Percy, posted 02-07-2006 4:51 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
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