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Author Topic:   Is there such thing as destiny
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 31 of 35 (283355)
02-02-2006 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Omnivorous
02-01-2006 9:27 AM


Re: Free will, omnipotence, and necessity
I confess I don't fully understand your response.
You know what, I don't think I even understand it.
It just so happens today I had a deep conversation with someone who has been trying to figure out this free will thing for over 19 years.
I am not sure I believe him 100%
But through discussing with him, it would seem that our free will may not exist at all. Or it may be just in how you word it.
The way I see it is, our free will is limited to, or the only decision we can really make is wether we accept God or not.
Since nothing can happen except by the will of the father, all that we percieve to be good and bad, then we do not have a choice what will happen to us. We can only choose if we accept that it is from God or not.
Job is a good stroy that outlines some of this.
Plus the decision is not anything we do on the outside, but only what we do on the inside with our heart.
My freind even thnks that no-one is going to hell, since it's all his will not ours. He makes a point, but I stand here and say I do not know who goes to heaven or hell, or do I even want to try.
Would it shake your faith to conclude that God might not be omnipotent, that God was mighty enough to create the universe yet had some limits on Her power?
No, my faith does not revolve around God's omnipotence. She might be the lesser of the God's outside this universe for all we know.
Omnipotence to me is a relative thing, and for me She is omnipotent. The begining and the end, creator of the universe, and me.
We have nothing to suggest anything otherwise. The bible does not specifically say "all-powerful"' or "omnipotent", but the sum of all the synonyms would suggest omnipotence.
I guess you could even say that the trinity is evidence against omnipotence. Whatever, it doesn't matter.
Should an omnipotent God consider it a success if most of the free-will possessing souls She creates choose badly?
Nothing happens except by the will of the Father.
One would think that even if granting free will, one would intend to give the free soul a pretty good shot at choosing well.
I agree with that. That is why I believe we would be judged based on what we know, not who we know. Knowing Jesus is more than just saying, I believe in Jesus.
the notion of an all-powerful loving parent becomes more problematic.
Problematic for you, not him.
His ways are not our ways, so we cannot judge what is a problem or not.
I feel God has shown me some pretty cool stuff over the last 2 years, and I am starting to understand some of his ways a little better. Things I used to think were problems, I don' see as problems anymore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Omnivorous, posted 02-01-2006 9:27 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Omnivorous, posted 02-02-2006 8:17 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 32 of 35 (283363)
02-02-2006 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Jack
02-02-2006 6:37 AM


I am destined not to believe in destiny.
You had no choice but to believe that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Dr Jack, posted 02-02-2006 6:37 AM Dr Jack has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 33 of 35 (283364)
02-02-2006 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
02-02-2006 7:47 AM


Re: Free will, omnipotence, and necessity
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, rR.
We do not agree, but we have at least successfully communicated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2006 7:47 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2006 12:45 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 34 of 35 (283431)
02-02-2006 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Omnivorous
02-02-2006 8:17 AM


Re: Free will, omnipotence, and necessity
but we have at least successfully communicated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Omnivorous, posted 02-02-2006 8:17 AM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 35 (285811)
02-11-2006 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by nwr
01-27-2006 11:29 AM


Another Angle, just for the Wiz!
MTW writes:
I personally find it hard to believe in destiny. I struggle with this because it seems that
each event is random. Anything I plan or want usually doesn't happen the way I wanted,
even if my skills would fit nicely to the task.
Ofcourse, believers haven't ever given me answers other than to believe, etc, blah, blah.
(Notice how it's my fault as I wasn't believing enough )
If God made you and I with specific skills or talents, surely there would be some sort of destiny to
go along with.
Destiny?
Mr.Dictionary writes:
destiny \des-te-ne\ n, pl -nies 1 : something to which a person or thing is destined : fate, fortune 2 : a predetermined course of events
Two possible meanings, here.
1)Predestination
2)Predetermination.
nwr writes:
The direction of my life has resulted from my own decisions, although these were undoubtedly influenced by circumtances and by my upbringing.
I agree, nwr. We become the decisions that we make.
So where does God fit into all this?
NIV writes:
Phil 1:3-6- I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
1)His daily choice is to "thank God." In other words, prayer and communion are one of the decisions he makes.
2) He chooses to be confident that God started a transformation of his heart, mind, and soul and will complete this transformation until he dies.
3) His decision is based on Faith. Not in Faith in and of itself as in a wish but Faith in a living Christ whom he will someday personally meet.(And we as believers think that we have already met the Holy Spirit...and will someday meet Christ Himself as the bodily form of God.)
This message has been edited by Phat, 02-11-2006 06:25 AM

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by nwr, posted 01-27-2006 11:29 AM nwr has not replied

  
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