Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Emotions in Science?
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 16 of 79 (287199)
02-16-2006 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Omnivorous
02-14-2006 8:59 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
As to the emotional state: perhaps the question is upside down...Consider our own adrenaline rush and its conferral of hyperalertness, sharper response times, inurement to pain, heightened strength: the emotional element is our experience of that state.
I was thinking this same thing. I think emotions may more or less be our "experience" of a physical experience our body is having/undergoing. We then place names on such experiences as well as moral labels to set them into a context of the social world we live in.
As to more complex emotional experiences, I think the Rev is right on about their roots in our social existence.
This I disagree with, or at least the idea that we have more complex emotional experiences. We may have the ability to handle more emotions at once and so face conflicts, but I'm not certain how any single emotion is more complex than anything else.

holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 02-14-2006 8:59 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Omnivorous, posted 02-16-2006 9:29 AM Silent H has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 17 of 79 (287209)
02-16-2006 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by rgb
02-14-2006 1:41 AM


What are some advantages that emotions give to an animal?
To a first approximation, emotions are the motivators that drive behavior.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by rgb, posted 02-14-2006 1:41 AM rgb has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 18 of 79 (287248)
02-16-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Silent H
02-16-2006 4:38 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
This I disagree with, or at least the idea that we have more complex emotional experiences. We may have the ability to handle more emotions at once and so face conflicts, but I'm not certain how any single emotion is more complex than anything else.
I agree, Holmes. Perhaps "compound" would have been a better term than "complex."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 4:38 AM Silent H has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 19 of 79 (287989)
02-18-2006 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Omnivorous
02-14-2006 8:59 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
I am a strong believer that we are far superior to animals. IF so, why did i compare animals to human behaviour? The basic molecular mechanisms in brain are common to man and animals. Therefore, study of animals regarding the brain function should be identical to humans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Omnivorous, posted 02-14-2006 8:59 AM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by nwr, posted 02-18-2006 11:42 AM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 21 by Omnivorous, posted 02-18-2006 11:48 AM inkorrekt has not replied
 Message 22 by ramoss, posted 02-18-2006 12:07 PM inkorrekt has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 20 of 79 (288071)
02-18-2006 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by inkorrekt
02-18-2006 2:13 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
I am a strong believer that we are far superior to animals.
We are animals, so that's a non-starter.
There is no doubt that we are superior to other animals. But that's because "superior" is our word, and we give it a meaning that favors us. In other words, this superiority is subjective, due to our assessing it from our own perspective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by inkorrekt, posted 02-18-2006 2:13 AM inkorrekt has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 21 of 79 (288073)
02-18-2006 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by inkorrekt
02-18-2006 2:13 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
The superiority claim is, indeed, a nonstarter. I'll skip that one.
The basic molecular mechanisms in brain are common to man and animals. Therefore, study of animals regarding the brain function should be identical to humans.
Yes, we would expect some commonality amongst all animals in terms of brain function. Even the tiniest insect brain has some commonality with ours, reptiles a bit more, mammals much more, and the other apes a great deal.
Does that work for you for starters?

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by inkorrekt, posted 02-18-2006 2:13 AM inkorrekt has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 22 of 79 (288079)
02-18-2006 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by inkorrekt
02-18-2006 2:13 AM


Re: Different solution, not a superior one
"Superior"?? In what manner? You can sniff things better out? YOu can survive better in the cold?? You are stronger, faster running?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by inkorrekt, posted 02-18-2006 2:13 AM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by inkorrekt, posted 03-02-2006 10:07 PM ramoss has replied

  
melatonin
Member (Idle past 6209 days)
Posts: 126
From: Cymru
Joined: 02-13-2006


Message 23 of 79 (288342)
02-19-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Drew
11-02-2005 6:05 PM


OK I'll have a bash at this in a fairly reductionist fashion, following Ed Rolls theory of emotion.
Emotions are simply biological states brought about by reward and punishment. A reward is something an animal will work towards (approach), a punisher something to avoid/escape from (withdrawal). Emotions are the phasic biological state brought about by reward/punishment; feelings are the conscious phenomena of emotions sometimes called affect (i.e. the subjective effect of emotion). Moods are the tonic continuing effects of an emotion. Motivation is the state of working towards a desired goal, when the goal is achieved, an emotion is produced.
Why do we have them?...emotions are an adaptive response enabling flexible goal-directed behaviour. So, the values of reinforcers can change depending on circumstance - a fixed response is limiting and less adaptive. This can be seen in satiation studies, we may favour chocolate, but after eating 3 bars, their reward value diminishes and we may move on to a more rewarding food, thus we get a varied diet.
This message has been edited by melatonin, 02-19-2006 12:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Drew, posted 11-02-2005 6:05 PM Drew has not replied

  
melatonin
Member (Idle past 6209 days)
Posts: 126
From: Cymru
Joined: 02-13-2006


Message 24 of 79 (288343)
02-19-2006 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by inkorrekt
02-13-2006 12:43 PM


Re: Chemicals and emotions
The spirit influences the heart. Then the heart influences Brain through Electrochemical activities. If you talk ot a Psychologist, he will laugh at you. Yet, this is the reality. Another example is in Exorcism.
Sounds like an interesting study. Maybe we should examine the differences in affect between believers and non-believers.
Problem is whenever we test people who have some sort of peripheral nervous system deficit, they show little deficit in emotion. The James-Lange theory of emotion (bodily feedback theory) is long refuted, and the new weaker form, Damasio's theory (somatic-marker hypothesis), will likely follow it into obscurity. The biggest deficits in emotional function come from neural damage/dysfuntion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by inkorrekt, posted 02-13-2006 12:43 PM inkorrekt has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by inkorrekt, posted 03-03-2006 6:29 PM melatonin has replied

  
2ice_baked_taters
Member (Idle past 5850 days)
Posts: 566
From: Boulder Junction WI.
Joined: 02-16-2006


Message 25 of 79 (288367)
02-19-2006 3:28 PM


I believe we can in a very physical way describe emotions with science.
However it is like painting a house with water. When we attempt to describe things that are spiritual, seeing things from a purely scientific perspective denies that we exist.
The very nature of science does not allow for the essence of emotion.
Science with emotion is no longer science. It becomes religion.
Science does not allow for or will it ever recognize emotion or intent. It cannot...that is both it's weakness and it's strength.
When using science to explore and define what makes us human we need to recognize that by nature it dehumanizes us.
If you find this view interesting I have a similar perspective in the "should creationism be taught in schools thread. I believe it is worth consideration.
This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-19-2006 03:30 PM
This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 02-19-2006 06:21 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by nator, posted 03-04-2006 8:04 AM 2ice_baked_taters has not replied

  
rgb
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 79 (289381)
02-21-2006 9:19 PM


Omnivorous,
quote:
I'm leery of "lower" and "higher" comparisons of animals.
I assure you that I did not use those words as a reference to superiority.
quote:
Perhaps it is more useful to think in terms of different strategies.
I can go with that.

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 27 of 79 (290926)
02-27-2006 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Drew
11-02-2005 7:49 PM


Chemical and emotions
Drew, this is a very interesting question. The functions of the brain are regulated by 10-15 chemicals. These are not found in the food. Brain has to synthesize them. Brain takes the raw materials from food and by the action of few enzymes, converts them into active chemicals. What triggers them? Whenever an electrical impulse reaches the end of anerve, then at the nerve endings, these chemicals are actively synthesized and released. Amount synthesized and the amount released depend on the the length and intensity of the signal. After these chemoicals are released, then they simulate the electrical implse and this process id repeated till the signal reaches the destination. This may involve millions of such cells. Dr. Candace Pert first identified the structures known as opiate receptors that respond to pleasure and pain. You may read her book,"Molecules and emotions"
There are some clinical conditions in which the formation, release and reuptake of these chemicals are impaired. Transmission of signal by the brain cells is mediated by these chemicals. I hope I have given you the answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Drew, posted 11-02-2005 7:49 PM Drew has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 28 of 79 (290927)
02-27-2006 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Christian7
11-02-2005 9:02 PM


God center
It is so sad that God has been reduced to a stimulus- response system.This happens in animals all the time. Some one reported that there is a center in the brain which when stimulated produces religious experience. This means, those who experience God had some sort of stimulations at this center in brain. In any case, personal encounter with God cannot equal the electrical stimulation or for that matter experience with drugs. Chemcials or electrical stimulation cannot substitute for the real thing i.e: God. Do not go for the 2nd best. Go for the real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Christian7, posted 11-02-2005 9:02 PM Christian7 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by nator, posted 03-04-2006 8:06 AM inkorrekt has replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 29 of 79 (290928)
02-27-2006 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Christian7
11-02-2005 9:37 PM


consciuos perceptions
This is otherwise knwn as Self awareness. This is an important function that allows the animals to react and respond to the environment. In other words it is like stimulus >>>>> response. The way the animal percieves the stimulus (external temperature, toxic chemical, electrical stimulation, drug stimulation etc) The animal becomes aware of the surroundings. In animals, it stops here. Wehreas in humans, it goes much beyond.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Christian7, posted 11-02-2005 9:37 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 6081 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 30 of 79 (291103)
02-28-2006 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by AdminOmni
02-13-2006 1:03 PM


Re: Off-Topic Alert
Thank you for the suggestion. I am sure this new topic on the role of religion in addiction will haelp many in the forum. I will plan on starting a new thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by AdminOmni, posted 02-13-2006 1:03 PM AdminOmni has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024