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Member (Idle past 5833 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: When is a belief system a Mental Disorder? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: The kind that makes sense? Oh, the horror.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: No, no, Faith, those are the space aliens, not demons, not invisible beings. They are just highly advanced beings with technology we can't understand. You people who believe they are supernatural are exactly like the cargo cult people.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: How do you know?
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: How about the example of the woman who's new boyfriend is molesting her daughter, the kid tells her, the mother simply decides to not believe the daughter, even though she has seen the obvious clues and signs and there is also physical evidence, etc. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. Indulging in willful ignorance and self-delusion in order to avoid emotional discomfort is very very common in humans.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What do those three descriptors have to do with the change in allele frequencies in populations over time?
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What does the above have to do, neccessarily, with "meaningless, short, and brutal" lives?
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: It is? According to what objective standard? And what does this have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time?
quote: Yeah, that is too bad. What does this have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time?
quote: But I do not live my life meaninglessly, so....so what? I don't crave some kind of external validation for the meaning I assign to my life. But what does the change in allele frequencies over time have to do with chosen meaning, anyway? There could be objective purpose and change in allele frequencies in populations over time.
quote: I experienced nothing in my life that I consider truly brutal. As "brutal"" is ultimately a subjective term, it is pretty useless in this context. What does that have to do with the change in allele frequencies over time.
quote: I don't understand this conclusion at all. Please lay out the logical progression for me that starts with "accidental" and leads to "brutal, short, and meaningless". Please leave out the purely subjective judgements.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You've simply stated a series of your favorite conclusions from the premise, and alsmost all of them are entirely subjective. You have provided no logical progression at all, just a bunch of your own subjective assertions. In particular, the bit about what we do, not having significance is simply wrong on it's face. We may die, but what we do now can impact future events. In fact, I would say that this is inevitable. Just because you may feel like you've wasted your life and couldn't figure it out doesn't mean that everyone else has, or couldn't. Try again.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: But that's precisely what RR IS doing.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: RR believes that, objectively, life has no meaning at all. Therefore, if he attaches some kind of meaning regarding life to acceptance of the ToE, he is, by his own definition, presenting a subjective opinion. Since you agree that his conclusion, that if one accepts that allele frequencies in populations change over time, one MUST also logically conclude that life is "meaningless, brutal, and short", then perhaps you would be so kind as to lay out the logical progression that starts at the former and ends at the latter and includes no subjective statements? So far, he hasn't been able to, although I haven't read the rest of the thread yet. The error you and Robin are making is this: Because you can't derive meaning in life from X, you assume that X excludes the possibility of meaning in life. In your case, "X" is the TOE. Replace X with "Life is carbon-based". I doubt you can derive meaning in life from "Life is carbon-based" either. Does that mean that if one accepts "Life is carbon-based" that one must agree that life is meaningless, brutal and short? Seems silly, doesn't it? But I have seen no other argument provided. If you have another argument, then lay it out for me.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You have no way of knowing if that is true or not. There IS objectively speaking NO inherent meaning to life if it all based upon carbon. There IS objectively speaking NO inherent meaning to life if the sky is blue. There IS objectively speaking NO inherent meaning to life if it all E=MC2. See? Silly. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-19-2006 02:05 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, ok, but... how does acceptance that all life is carbon-based logically progress to "life is meaningless, brutal, and short"? (I am particularly interested in your objective definition of "short" in this context.) I mean, unless you are trying to say that the ToE even has a "formal purpose", which is even more nonsensical. It's like saying that gravity has a "formal purpose".
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: And, conversely, studies also show that the cuter and more attractive an infant is, the more attention their mother will give to them, even to the point of being more likely to ignore a less-attractive baby who wanders off in a grocery store compared to keeping a careful watch over the cure one.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Hybrid vigor. Of course, genetics are not destiny. We are strongly influenced by them, of course, but since we have consciousness as well, our actions and decisions in mate selection are a mix of the two. It is both nature and nurture, so to speak.
quote: I think it's pretty interesting, actually. Nothing about understanding such things makes my feelings for my husband any less.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Like crash has explained already, we don't have to consciously, actively, literally think about future children for it to influence our behavior. There is a genetic basis for lots of behavioral tendencies that you don't think about on a conscious level but they are at work, nevertheless. We can see this in disordered behavior, such as addiction or OCD. People with these genetically-influenced tendencies can more easily succomb to destructive behaviors than those without them. Yet few people who suffer from these disorders are consciously aware of the tendency until it negatively affects their lives. They just follow their desires and their impulses. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-21-2006 08:10 AM
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