When is a belief system a Mental Disorder?

I disagree, Faith. The two predominant subsets of psychotic mentation concern religion and sexuality--which is only to be expected, given the intensely primary role that both play in human lives.I'll look for some data to support that, but I didn't want the discussion to slip by before I get there. I agree.Poets, for example, often receive their inspiration via what is commonly called "the given line," often heard, with the rest of the poem unfolding in the process of unpacking that line's meaning and emulating its scansion and tone.That is my own experience; my brother, however, is a paranoid schizophrenic, and his voices threaten and condemn.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

A group example becomes more problematic, SNC, because of the complex part played by group psychology and other social dynamics.For example, we could cite the Lakota Ghost Dancers and the Chinese Boxers, both of whom believed they were magically protected from bullets, persisting in that belief far past the point where a few bullets proved them wrong. If memory serves, there is a rebel force in Africa now that holds a similar belief.Were all these Ghost Dancers and Boxers mentally ill? Or had they suspended their disbelief because they could not proceed otherwise? It is instructive that the Boxers and Dancers were both facing overwhelming military superiority, and their magical beliefs enabled them to go into battle when their cultural and national imperatives insisted they must, but first common sense and then direct observatin must have told them it was suicide. From that intersection between you-must and you-cannot, in what direction is insanity?One might as well posit that the majority of Americans that believed (and may still believe) that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 are insane, given the lack of evidence for and the wealth of evidence against that belief.Freud considered religion an obsessional neurosis, but he also thought his patients' stories of parental sexual abuse were caused by deep-seated sexual urges, Electral and Oedipal. From his notebooks we see that his patients' accounts of their abuse were such that we would certainly consider them persuasive today. Was he insane to think otherwise when the only evidence for his view was his own theory?I know of no one who has formally cataloged their beliefs and assembled a body of evidence for them, a personal text against which they consider new evidence and adjust their body of belief accordingly. It is easy to claim (and I'm not saying you have) that one holds no irrational or nonrational beliefs, since we cannot conduct an audit.Both philosophically and psychologically, the web of belief seems sometimes complex and fragile, sometimes simple and strong: we have a great deal to learn about ourselves. At any rate, I fear we cannot detect the dangerously mentally disordered until their behavior crosses a line that is socially and culturally determined.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Then pick a Buddhist monastery with a traditionalist abbot, Robin.Very smart and very unsentimental.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Why, Robin, they frown on such things either entirely or when done to excess--just like every other major religion.Wink wink, nod nod.As for old texts, they have some of the oldest--the worlds first movable type was used to print Buddhist scriptures--and you can't beat a Buddhist for tedious tracts: inscrutable plus tedious = fully opaque.One might find the secret techniques of Being and Not Being just to escape.But I think what you really need to do for a perfect fit is start your own cult. Ought to be a piece of cake for anyone who has weathered undergrads, department meetings, and me.This message has been edited by Omnivorous, 02-17-2006 08:19 PM

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Sho'nuff loathe the man.He is a slavery apologist as demonstrated by his own published tracts.SNC, search the Forum for "Douglas Wilson" (use the quotes) in All Forums, and you'll find the history of my eruption at Faith about Wilson, as well as links to his material.Make up your own mind.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Is there a 1611 facsimile edition available, Faith? The language of the KJV is the only real competition that Shakespeare has ever had.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Yes, it looks like modernized spelling.I'd love to see a fascimile. I'll think I'll look, too.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Or the most grievous of his sins?But I didn't intend to reopen an old debate about Wilson, only to provide some background to the charge of hatred.You're welcome to the last word here, but after that I'd as soon let it go.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

By googling 1611 King James Version fascimile, I see it is widely available, complete with the Apocrypha.I'll be ordering one. Thanks for the notion, Faith.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

Lead me not into temptation.As long as I don't need narcotic pain meds, the shackles of responsibility they've put on me should hold. There are snarly bits of my Id that should never be disinhibited.But don't worry, Robin. After the Revolution, I'll take care of you.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

[qs=schrafinator][S]tudies also show that the cuter and more attractive an infant is, the more attention their mother will give to them, even to the point of being more likely to ignore a less-attractive baby who wanders off in a grocery store compared to keeping a careful watch over the cute one.[/qs]A study done some years back (I'll look for it) adds an interesting angle to this, Schraf.By having people rate the likenesses between adult men and their progeny, the study found that a peak perception of paternal likeness, i.e., "looks just like Daddy," occurred at just about the time the infants became toddlers and thus capable of rug-ratting around under their own power, outside the arms of maternal protection.Conclusion: The genes were advertising themselves to their progenitor--I really am yours, you can invest in me with confidence.

---

"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
-Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------