What are the pros and cons of being a Believer?

I was lurking in the thread "When does belief becoming a mental disorder" and it went off the rails but it got me thinking about this:Is there an advantage in life to having religious views? As I understand it ones religion brings some kind of comfort and security; many posters have argued that with out religion or a god life is with out meaning.But I also understand that ones views can exact a high toll on the individual for that belief; being lambasted on EvC springs to mind but also by dictating how one lives ones life.I'm interested in knowing what are the pull factors of religion. What does one 'get' that one who is not religious doe not 'get' in life? Is it certainty? Is it answer to esoteric questions?Through out history people have gone through absolutely awfull experiences in the name of their religion. Why?If this get promoted it should go in Faith and Belief.This message has been edited by Larni, 02-20-2006 10:40 AMThis message has been edited by Larni, 02-20-2006 10:41 AM

If you can come up with a more descriptive title, we can promote this for you.You can change the title by editing your OP. When done, reply to this message so that we know you are ready for us to examine it anew.

Title changed (I was not happy with it either ).

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.A comment on the topic. The main concern here is with the pros and cons in this life, not those of an afterlife.This message has been edited by AdminNWR, 02-20-2006 10:12 AM

pro 1. you allegedly have a fellowship body that will help you through things. but they might decide you aren't one of them and urn on you.
pro 2. you might be living right and in the pleasure of god so he might bless you but then maybe he's trying to teach you more and might give you hardship.
pro 3. the endless knowledge that you are doing the right thing and everyone else is horrible and going to hell and the boundless pride that brings.
pro 4. if you're lucky enough to not be molested by your family or a pastor or bible teacher, you get to maintain your virginity until marriage so that you won't know how bad of a lover your spouse actually is. and you might even dodge stds... assuming your spouse was as good of a person as you are.
pro 5. this world is easier because your own mortality needn't be a roadblock to what you want.con 1. you have to follow all these rules and shelter yourself because you believe that you are incapable of making good decisions because you are inherently evil.
con 2. you have to listen to christian music.
con 3. you will inevitably be associated with fred phelps and pat robertson.
con 4. you have to love fred phelps and pat robertson.
con 5. you must limit your earthly experiences and thus understanding because certain actions are inherently wrong.
con 6. you have to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is under the influence of satan. the world around you then becomes a very scary and demon-filled world.i could go on.

Pro: If you live in the Americas and significant portions of the rest of the world, then you will have set of myths and symbols that are held in common with the people around you that allows you to have a common understanding of who you are and where you fit into the world.Con: Most denominations that I know of require, as a minimum, belief in the existence of a Creator and the assumption that this Creator is interested in human history as well as your own personal affairs. An atheist may feel uncomfortable in these churches despite any respect she may feel for the myths and symbols.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Pro:You get someone to whom you can talk at any time, someone with whom you can share your troubles.You get absolutely correct advice and therefore confidence that your actions are always right.You get certainty that your spirit doesn't die with your body.You get joy.__Con:You get a distorted view of reality.
____Those come immediately to mind.Cheers.

Larni,What's your perspective? That of a non-believer? Hard to answer without really understanding that.Assuming that, I don't see that the experiences people go through in the name of religion are very different than the experiences they go through for love, for power, for family, for many things. Religion fits human ideals, just like everything else. For whom? For some people, undoubtedly. Some people draw strength in their faith where they've previously been unable to find it. Just as others do with sports, work, volunteer work, even drinking or smoking.For some people, religion provides a community. Others get community from their race, from locality, from interests, etc.For some people, religion provides meaning. For others, it is something else.For some people, religion provides answers to questions. Others don't ask questions. Still others use nonreligious mystecism. Others use philosophy and hand-waving. Others use only repeatable observables. Each and every one of them believes that they have a better foundation of Truth than the other. So they all seem the same to me (from the first person point of view that I think you're taking here)I guess all I'm saying is, the good & bad things that religion provides don't seem special, from the point of view of someone who is not a believer.Ben

like an imaginary friend? i don't think many people have a problem believing that they are always right. further, i don't think this is a good thing. what is this spirit thing you speak of? i have plenty of joy and i'm not terribly religious. most religious people i know are actually pretty miserable and full of guilt. they sure talk about joy. but i have yet to see any.

Yes, if one needs comforted; I admit, my agnosticism and atheism offers little in the way of comfort when, for example, a loved one dies. Purpose that they could not have given themselves perhaps. Certainy in faith is impossible, but one what puts their faith in something can believe that they are certain.
I am still seeking answers to the esoteric, have not found any yet, but the journey is extremely enlightening

Screechin Weasel once penned the following lines: That's the pro.The con is that if this is all we have, you might not live it to its fullest because you are shooting for an afterlife.

Literalist Christianity is otherworldly fundamentally and if lived properly (we all fail) is opposed to the world, the flesh and the devil. Our struggles against all these influences (assuming we are fighting at all) are hard work. There are many comforts in the Christian life, mostly having to do with learning how to live an orderly moral life which makes life a lot easier than some of the messes some of us got ourselves into before conversion. Failure however is very painful.{abe: The Christian life costs, and SHOULD cost. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer (I think) said, conversion means we are to "Come to Christ and die."} But it's all worth it in the end. This is the the reversal of the Fall, and the redemption of the ruined Creation and the regeneration of the lost human spirit back to the image of God. This is worth every kind of pain in this world. Really, the main problem with us Christians is that we shy away from the inevitable pain and lead a compromised life.This message has been edited by Faith, 02-21-2006 09:21 AM

Hey ben, you'll never guess what I found (and bought!) at the local food co-op.organic, no trans-fats, naturally flavored, whole grain pop tarts.I immediately thought of you. The brand name is Nature's Path, and they aren't bad.

The very first thing 'said' to me, post-conversion, that I can attribute to God was "everything is going to be alright"Space shuttle flight is an incredibly complex and dangerous affair. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of known areas of potential failure, any one of which will result in a lost shuttle. The astronauts are aware of this. And despite all the training and all the physcological strength and all the care taken, the astronauts cannot divorce themselves from the reality of the risks they take.Now imagine, as they sit strapped in on the lauch pad, waiting for the countdown, that someone addresses them:"Folks, its probably going to be tough. You are likely to face tremendous problems and at times you will be terrifed. You will face potential death and pain and destruction. But whatever happens to you, I am telling you that you will come back down and land safely and soundly without injury of any kind"It would make all the difference in the world to the strapped in astronaut facing such a mission. God is comfort. That kind of comfort. Being lambasted on EvC is a choice willingly made. The lambasting is to be expected and no offence can really be taken, as any Christian here would have stood in their opponants shoes arguing their opponants position before they themselves saw the light. And possibly less gracefully and tolerantly than the lambasters do.God doesn't dictate to me how to live my life in the least. He suggests and exhorts and desires but never forces. Any modification to my lifestyle comes out of me acknowledging the sense God makes and not standing in the way of his work on me. It's not an intellectual assent that he is right - but a true sense of knowing he is right and wanting to go his way not mine.For all the things in which we are educated. For all the courses which will provide us with objective information about diy, gardening, science and sport, etc., there exists no such thing as objective information as to "how to live a life". The central most important lessons we need are devoid of objectivity. God is a father who shows his sons and daughters how to live life. And how to face death. Objectively. In the case of Christians we are told that we can expect trouble. And why we should expect trouble. And in doing what we are asked to do - go out and be a light to the world - we should expect a world that hates the light to react negatively. A Christian (one who sees himself as a soldier rather than being on vacation) doesn't view lifes mission being about his own comfort and happiness primarily. Sure its nice when its nice, but its not uppermost in his mind.A Christian has one central mission and that is to make Jesus known so that others might receive what they themselves received. Its too important not to do so. And if that leads to people laughing and pointing and ridiculing... or throwing you to lions... then so be it. Its not always easy but such things are irrelevant ultimately. Life here is but three score years and ten or thereabouts.A relative blink of the eye, eternally speaking.This message has been edited by iano, 21-Feb-2006 04:57 PM

I would imagine the astronauts tell themselves something along these lines everytime they take off.
doesn't make it true though, to some extent it's a delusion, a lie, to make it easier to take the risk. at the heart of it they're fully aware that it could all go tits up and end in disaster.I believe any honest christian would amit to having similar misgivings