What are the pros and cons of being a Believer?

I agree with you, I don't believe those who aren't christians can't do this, Its just we tend to do it more often.

I would argue that some component of faith allowed her to access that strength.Should we not examine what it is about faith that helps us?I contend it is our thinking style that leads us to react to hardship in certain ways. Get the right thinking style and you can cope with more stress.

I'm sure thinking style is something one can change, but there might be limits. It might be easier for her to gain strength through her faith than any other way, which gives it utility.

Faith is not an impersonal concept---can we not agree that "it" is personal?Having Faith in Faith is, however, mere positive thinking.having the "aspirin" of Christianity without the Willow Bark is ---at least to me---having Jesus without having Religion.Its not the pious platitudes of the Bible that get us through life. It is the living character behind the words that bring life to our individual spirits and to the words themselves.

laughter is very important for dealing with hardship. i was raised christian but nothing helped with the death of my father like laughing about it. we called him a dick head (testicular brain tumor- no mature involvement), we told people who asked that he grew grass (most people thought landscaper, one guy thought 'herbalist')... the list goes on. by laughing and sharing that laugh with others, we can dispel the gloom.maybe god gave me the laughter, but it sure did more for me than some "oh one day you'll see him again..." cause yeah. telling that to a nine-year-old just isn't helpful. especially as the age expectancy for my generation grows. i'd rather be thankful for what i had than wish and hope and daydream about 'someday' that may never come.

is it really the faith in god that does it or just the faith? it seems to me that people of all faiths receive the same benefit. i'd venture to say those people who used to practice human sacrifice used to receive the same benefit. this might suggest that i could have absolute faith in the fsm and get 'the peace that passes understanding' by simply having that quiet confidence of being right and knowing wherefore my strength.while it is true that the bible says that we can do all things through christ, it also says that god will never give us more travail than we can stand. so it seems to me that we've the strength already and jesus just acts as a finish line we can visualize for the race that must be run. in that case, the fsm might work just as well.

I think this forum shows that every person stops asking 'is that all there is to it?' at a different point than every other. I don't think it's a necessary part of religious belief not to question.I think the point at which people stop asking 'is that all there is to it' is defined on perceived utility. If there's more (short-term) utility in finding a more mechanistic answer, then people will do so. If there isn't, people won't. Whether they're religious or not.Many of the questions being asked here are not questions of utility for the lay person. As such, we are able to "believe away" at whatever we wish, and set our cutoff point of 'is that all there is to it' rather arbitrarily, and still do just fine.Given the make-up of the American society, there will probably be long-term effects of this (and I'm sure jar would argue strongly that we're already seeing such). I think we can see clearly, however, that there's very little pressure for the lay person in their choice of when to stop asking 'is that all there is to it?'Ben

Does that mean we can hold to the spirit of Jesus's message but junk the dogma of the bible? Could we live as Jesus did with out going to church, praying etc and recieve the 'pros' of belief?Can we say "...I admire that man, I will try to act like him...." without ascribing him divintity? This seems to be a way to get the 'pros' without the 'cons'.I would whole heartedly support this view btw. It's the doing it because of who he purported to be i.e. son og god, not what he did that causes me problems.

I would say it is faith, any faith that leads to certainty, that leads to a greater sense of security in the world, leads to confidence to make the choices we need to do to get on.My career is built on helping people make the best decisions they can in life. I try to kick start faith, but in ones own ability to cope and do the things in life that have to be done.

Got to hand it to you Ben I think you have summed it up pretty well. I know many people who pootle along with a belief structure and have no reason to question it at all. They don't really question deep meaning for reality of holding that belief.These lucky people seem to get all the pros and none of the cons.None of my friends will talk to me about religion and faith. Not even my partner. When I try I get told "Nonononononono!" I surmise it's for this reason.

How can you truthfully say that untill you have heard EVERY argument, or spoken to EVERY person?You have closed your mind to every other possibility without knowing every other possibility.seems to me you are not using the intelligence that your god gave you.

While most of what you said does have a point, your limiting yourself to Protestant American christianity. Many christians of alternative denominations take a pro-evolution or centrist stance.
My belief in God provides me not only with a sense of comfort but a sense of purpose. It does not give me a sense of security. I believe that while on this earth i should enjoy myself, help others when i am able and do no harm to those who mean me none.
the only real con of my faith is most of my friends who are atheist/agnostic evolutionists think growing up catholic affected my ability to use logic.
I'm Gnostic and personally believe that both theories are valid. Evolution as a mechanism for the furtherment of species, and Creation/ID being the hand that guides it.PS: Read Calculating God by Robert J Sawyer. It's about an alien who believes in a imperfect creator, and is an evolutionist, coming to earth to meet with an atheistic neo-Darwinian paleontologist to examine history and find god. Amazing Read. Also contain a large amount of cosmological data supporting both theories

Welcome to EvC SilverGenesisWe have a wide variety of forums for your debating pleasure, but I warn you it can become habit forming. In the purple signature box below, you'll find some links that will help make your visits here more enjoyable.Pay particular attention to our Forum Guidelines and all will go well.Again welcome and pleasant debating.This message has been edited by AdminPD, 02-22-2006 03:42 PM

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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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i actually said nothing about evolution.welcome to the forum, but try to read more carefully and not what you assume.

i quite agree. i expect, however, that many people view the benefits as really being rewards from a certain correct deity because of the faith rather than resulting from the faith itself.