Human Lies or Gods Word (Books making claims)

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Originally posted by yzend1:
Do you think my Roman Catholic Bible was written by/via an advanced alien or future-time travelling Human or is it Human Lies or is it the Word of God?

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The mind Boggles

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Will it be St peter at the marble gates or some alien or advanced human when I die?

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The Mind Boggles

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I suppose the question might be what good is faith in God which might only delay us on our road of using science to achieve immortality? Hence, It possible ain't some future human but a naughty rascal of an alien getting further and further ahead of us?

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How do we inform the world to wake up?.......Before it's too late to catch up?

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yzend1

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Your original question was asking how we could identify a book as being written by God and I responded with a few criteria plus the notion that I couldn't see any way of distinguishing God from a sufficiently advanced intelligence (SAI), or even a time-travelling human.You're now asking if I personally think the bible was written by an SAI?Personally, no. I think it was written by men. Were they deliberately lying? I don't see why not, although its difficult to authenticate either way. I gather Barbara Thiering has done a lot of good work in this regard - the bible may well have been written as a fulfilment of earlier Jewish messianic prophecies and certainly seems to contain stories already in the dead sea scrolls. Its an interesting topic. Maybe someone who knows more than I do about the topic can wade in here.....Then again, maybe it was written by a crafty alien? Seems to me to be a strange way to go about things if it was.Why all the fuss about immortality though? It'd be a nightmare - imagine all the endless re-runs of the Sound of Music you'd have to sit through.PE

The nice thing about eventually dying, is getting to an artificial heaven, designed and constructed by advanced humans or aliens. Then once there, perhaps they could invent a universe with inhabitable planets in, with bodies to control where you forget your real identity (which is an immortal, exotic matter, being), where you could think up crazy ideas about getting to an artificial heaven.Mind you, I'm sure if you don't want to go there, there's probably an opt out clause, turning you into dust and ashes. Won't anybody miss you? Never mind, I'll remember you (if the rules allow it).Perhaps you could come back as the ant I roasted with my magnifing glass in the playground, one sunny day as a child at school.yzend1

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Originally posted by yzend1:
The nice thing about eventually dying, is getting to an artificial heaven, designed and constructed by advanced humans or aliens. Then once there, perhaps they could invent a universe with inhabitable planets in, with bodies to control where you forget your real identity (which is an immortal, exotic matter, being), where you could think up crazy ideas about getting to an artificial heaven.

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Mind you, I'm sure if you don't want to go there, there's probably an opt out clause, turning you into dust and ashes. Won't anybody miss you? Never mind, I'll remember you (if the rules allow it).

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Perhaps you could come back as the ant I roasted with my magnifing glass in the playground, one sunny day as a child at school.

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yzend1

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You should start your own religion

He doesn't need to. Raelianism already exists.

deleted duplicate[This message has been edited by shilohproject, 01-15-2003]

deleted duplicate[This message has been edited by shilohproject, 01-15-2003]

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Originally posted by Primordial Egg:

quote:

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Originally posted by yzend1:
Do you think my Roman Catholic Bible was written by/via an advanced alien or future-time travelling Human or is it Human Lies or is it the Word of God?

​

The mind Boggles

​

Will it be St peter at the marble gates or some alien or advanced human when I die?

​

The Mind Boggles

​

I suppose the question might be what good is faith in God which might only delay us on our road of using science to achieve immortality? Hence, It possible ain't some future human but a naughty rascal of an alien getting further and further ahead of us?

​

How do we inform the world to wake up?.......Before it's too late to catch up?

​

yzend1

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Your original question was asking how we could identify a book as being written by God and I responded with a few criteria plus the notion that I couldn't see any way of distinguishing God from a sufficiently advanced intelligence (SAI), or even a time-travelling human.

​

You're now asking if I personally think the bible was written by an SAI?

​

Personally, no. I think it was written by men. Were they deliberately lying? I don't see why not, although its difficult to authenticate either way. I gather Barbara Thiering has done a lot of good work in this regard - the bible may well have been written as a fulfilment of earlier Jewish messianic prophecies and certainly seems to contain stories already in the dead sea scrolls. Its an interesting topic. Maybe someone who knows more than I do about the topic can wade in here.....

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Then again, maybe it was written by a crafty alien? Seems to me to be a strange way to go about things if it was.

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Why all the fuss about immortality though? It'd be a nightmare - imagine all the endless re-runs of the Sound of Music you'd have to sit through.

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PE

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You have an interesting point here. My 1st grade daughter is killing me with this do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-do thing!Any image of heaven I can come up with includes a good dose of quiet time.
-Shiloh[This message has been edited by shilohproject, 01-15-2003]

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Originally posted by Primordial Egg:

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Originally posted by Peter:
Coherence and internal consistency are also present
in good fiction.

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Agreed. Coherence and internal consistency would both be necessary for any book claiming to be from the G (as a minimum), but certainly not sufficient.

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And thats before having to develop some way (which I can't think of) of distinguishing God from a sufficiently advanced intelligence.

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PE

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In my opinion, since we cannot know the nature of any supposed
god or advanced intelligence that we should look at the
question from the other angle.We know a fair bit about man (apologies for the non-pc usage
) so we should focuss on what would we expect to find in
a book written by man.Then when presented with any text we could consider how
likely it is to be the work of man.

Have you ever come across books that you thought were not the work of man?

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Originally posted by yzend1:
Have you ever come across books that you thought were not the work of man?

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I have. Both Frankenstein and the Peter Rabbit series were written by women.

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Originally posted by Coragyps:

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Originally posted by yzend1:
Have you ever come across books that you thought were not the work of man?

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I have. Both Frankenstein and the Peter Rabbit series were written by women.

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I already apologised for the non-pc usage of 'man'

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Originally posted by yzend1:
Have you ever come across books that you thought were not the work of man?

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Not yet ... how about you?

I got an 'A' in the Religion O'Level, but at the end of the day it's a story about a fella who gets crucified and resurrects. There is no way of telling for sure if it's the word of God or the lies of men.......the past is gone and at present thee is no way of going back. There are some people in this world who are very linguistic and find it easy to write far fetched ideas down....the world is full of books. Is the Gospel of Luke just another peice of fiction? It's impossible to answer. I'm not saying God doesn't exist, but for me I have no direct experience of him, so it looks like I'm staying presently Agnostic.When reading a book, in order to understand it, it will always seem like it is the work of humans though, because otherwise you wouldn't probably be able to understand it. So there's no way out of this scenario. (A book has to be written on the human level in order to be understandable, so it will always seem human rather than Godly).I for one don't think I will find God between the binders of some book. Likewise I could roam the earth for 70 years and still not meet God or know anything about him.I would go as far as to suggest that the only possible time you'll know for certain he exists is if, after dying, you awaken somewhere else in another reality. And even then the other reality could be built by these 'Advanced Beings' from the future, and unless they're honest maybe one will never know (Wizard of OZ scenario).I've only read Luke and attended the odd sermon as a youngster. Fairy tales or Truth? Impossible to know.So, in answer to your question, every book I have ever read seems likely to be written by human, for human.This leads to the question:-How did so many people get into the situation of believing certain books were the word of God? Were the 'originals' forced, Were their descendants brainwashed at childhood, or was it just fear, or were they hoping for an afterlife so much they deceived themselves? And why do they go on believing? Surely they should just accept the fact that they should be Agnostic since there is no proof that any book contains the word of GOD. (perhaps this should be a new topic.)yzend1[This message has been edited by yzend1, 01-22-2003][This message has been edited by yzend1, 01-22-2003]

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Originally posted by yzend1:

How did so many people get into the situation of believing certain books were the word of God? Were the 'originals' forced, Were their descendants brainwashed at childhood, or was it just fear, or were they hoping for an afterlife so much they deceived themselves? And why do they go on believing? Surely they should just accept the fact that they should be Agnostic since there is no proof that any book contains the word of GOD. (perhaps this should be a new topic.)

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I agree that all books I have encountered are consistent with
what I would expect of human authors.My opinion (for what its worth) is that religion is largely
politically motivated (not belief in god(s), but organised
religions). It is a means of controlling the masses by suggesting
that there are powers at work which can punish the unrighteous
it is possible to 'put the fear of god' into people and
help maintain stability.Politically speaking, religion has often been used as a justification
for wars and other atrocities.In large part, yes, people who follow particular religions have
been 'brainwashed' into it by the culture into which the were
born. Not deliberately, but since all of the attitudes around
them from birth have been founded in one religous world-view or
another this subtly colours the child's forming world-view.Most people do not start to question this world view until
teenage years, and even then it appears to be related to both
educational background, and the depth of cultural indoctrination
within their community.

At the end of the day, you will need to evaluate the truth of the messages attributed to God. If they make sense or not, are they logical. Does it sound like something God would say etc.
We used to say believe non of what you here and half of what you see.Only your cautious investigation can give you the answer.Regards
DL