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Author Topic:   We didn't pray
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 7 of 126 (293214)
03-08-2006 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
03-06-2006 9:34 AM


Good things happen to those that don't pray
I've been wondering about this since it turned up on the PNT list, I'm glad that everything went well!
I think I can sum up your argument in 5 words "Post hoc reasoning is bad". With the possible expansion of "religious and supersticious people are especially prone to engaging in this kind of reasoning".
I agree! I'd be surprised if anyone would disagree...but then maybe I shouldn't be.
Another possibility is that other people prayed for you, other family members, friends, friends of friends, Christians in general wishing for welfare. Naturally that's an unsatisfactory answer, but I think it'll be difficult to really muster an theological argument against it.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 03-08-2006 8:00 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 10 of 126 (293229)
03-08-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by kjsimons
03-08-2006 10:16 AM


Other people praying
Well OBVIOUSLY, someone must have prayed for you!
Not really, but I expect that some believer will bring it up. I'm actually surprised that no one has mentioned it yet.
Check out the last paragraph in Message 7 and feel your surprise melt away

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 Message 9 by kjsimons, posted 03-08-2006 10:16 AM kjsimons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by kjsimons, posted 03-08-2006 10:40 AM Modulous has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 26 of 126 (293486)
03-08-2006 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by mike the wiz
03-08-2006 8:00 PM


Re: Good things happen to those that don't pray
Just because a prayer preceded an event, doesn't mean that it MUST be false because it preceded it.
Seems fairly obvious to me.
For example, I coughed and then I found spit on my monitor. Does that mean it's post-hoc?
Yes. Post hoc means 'after this' so it would be. The fallacy is the notion that just because one thing follows another doesn't mean they are causally related. You need more information to know if they are causally related. Thus for prayer "I prayed and I got better. The praying made me get better" is the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
It MIGHT be that the prayer got you better, but the only evidence to base our reasoning is that getting better happened post hoc.
Therefore, if all prayers are genuine, then they are still regarded as post-hoc because we can't prove it.
Not at all. All things that come after things are post hoc. It is a fallacy only when you assert that the reason something happened was because of an event which preceded it, with the only reasoning being that the preceding event happened first.
If you can't actually demonstrate that prayer worked, you can say I believe that prayer did this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by mike the wiz, posted 03-08-2006 8:00 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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