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Author Topic:   athiesm
joz
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 23 (2270)
01-16-2002 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by mark24
01-16-2002 11:00 AM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
By that definition, atheist. If it maintains that the supernatural be excluded.
Mark

But is exhausting all possible natural explanations before resorting to the supernatural atheistic or agnostic?
or just something that would never occur to JP.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by mark24, posted 01-16-2002 11:00 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by mark24, posted 01-16-2002 1:47 PM joz has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5221 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 17 of 23 (2295)
01-16-2002 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by joz
01-16-2002 11:12 AM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:

But is exhausting all possible natural explanations before resorting to the supernatural atheistic or agnostic?
or just something that would never occur to JP.....

Couldn't have put it better. Once ALL natural explanations have been sought, & the natural mechanistic framework (used because its the only one observed) is exhausted, then we can look elsewhere.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by joz, posted 01-16-2002 11:12 AM joz has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 18 of 23 (2318)
01-17-2002 1:24 AM


Found this blurb on naturalism though a link of schrafinator's, from another topic string.
http://www.skepdic.com/naturalism.html
Moose
Added by edit: Oops, meant this to go to the uniformitarianism topic, not here. But I guess it's pertinent in the athiesm topic string also.
Still Moose
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 01-17-2002]

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 19 of 23 (2336)
01-17-2002 12:10 PM


The "uniformitarianism" topic and the "athiesm" topic discussions are to a substantial degree debating the same point, but the following seems to belong here a little more:
I think that it may be scientificly valid to truely believe that there is no supernatural.
If indeed there is a "supernatural" God, this "supernatural" is not really such; rather this "supernatural" is indeed "natural", but just outside of any "natural" that we currently understand.
To exist is to be part of nature.
Moose
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 20 of 23 (2338)
01-17-2002 1:01 PM


The "Atheism" topic got started as a "Coffee House" topic, but I think that it is really much a fundimental point in "The Great Debate".
"The Great Debate" come down to the study of nature as we know it, versus some "supernatural" input.
Moose
------------------
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5058 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 21 of 23 (2748)
01-25-2002 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Hugh_[Sir_Snotskis]
10-20-2001 9:08 AM


In order to make the wirl more beau I hope I can recline with more time to read Kant on beauty but for the now the following questions seem to take too much of my permission the CHURCH gave Galelio to hypothesis:Friday#2
I do not know how long it will take reader to not mistake the man for the letter.
Do we want companies willing to and dumping ions into the Envrionment for a profit motive?
Do we want doctors willing unwillingly involuntarily commiting patients to use people for guinea pigs just becuase a new drug appears de novo and some PhD thinks it will help?
Do you know that Nano-technologists in the US since they are not AND WERE NOT under Soviet Creative Darwinistic Academic Influence are economically free to collapse the food web in a Lotka-Volterra sense with the commerical potential of "nano-bots"?
Please learn these things before sending out disinformation at the bottom I will indicate traditions worked through to come to these questions but all must be addressed
Letter the Catholic CHURCH using Galileo's1615 as templete/scheme for when the world gives one lemons
Some years ago as Your Serene Highness well knows, I, discovered, un the heavens many things, that had not been seen before our own age. The novelty of these things, as well as, some consequences which followed from them, in contradiction to the physical notions commonly held, among academic philosophers stirred up against me, no small number of professors as if I had placed THESE things, in the sky with my own hands, in order to "upset" nature and overturn the sciences. They seemed to forget THAT the increase of audio recording volume known truths stimulates the investigation, establishment, and growth (of the arts; not their diminution or des)instruction.
Showing a greater fondness for their own, opinions, than for truth they sought to deny and disprove the new things which, if they had cared to look, for themselves, their own senses would have demonstrated to them. To this end they hurled various charges and published numerous writings filled with vain arguments and they made the grave mistakes of sprinking these WITH PASSAGES, taken from places in the Bible which they had failed to understand, properly and which were ill, suited to their purpose!
These men woould perhaps not have fallen into such error had they but paid attention to a most useful doctrine of St. Augustine's, relative to our seeing Norman Cambell on how to do this (making positive statements) about things which are obscure and hard to understand by means of reason alone. Speaking of a certain physical conclusion about the heavenly bodies, he wrote: "Now keeping always our respect for moderation in grave piety, we ought to not believe anything inadvisedly on a dubious point lest in favor to our error we conceive a prejudice against something that truth hereafter may reveal to be not-contrary in any way, to the sacred books of either the Old or New Testament."
Well, the passage of time has revealed to everyone the truths...of the Bible. These they apply, with little judgement, to thte refutation of arguments that they do not understand and have not even listened to such as asking me if I thought I was JESUS CHRIST.
First they have endeavored to spread the opinion that, such propositions in general are contrary to the Bible and are consequently damnable and heretical. They know that it is human nature, to take up causes whereby a man may oppres his neighnbor, no matter how unjustly rather Bird Migration...
against another man, who has no interest in Copernicus beyond approving of his teachings.
Now as to the flase aspersions which they so unjustly cast upon me...thus at the end of his letter of dedication addressing the pope, he said:
"If there should chance to be any exegtes ignorant of mathematics who pretend to skill in that discipline, and dare to condem and censure, this hypothesis of mine, upon the authority of some scriptural passage twisted to their purpose of Cantor or Newton non-fingo..
that may be serviceable to the holy Church in making a decision concerning the Copernican system that Cantors letter to you may have SUBSEQUENTLY rasied it may be taken and utilized, as seems best to the superiors. And if not, let my book be torn and burnt, as I neither intend not pretend, to gain from it any fruit that is not pious and Catholic.
HENCE MY QUESTION DO SEEDS IN FALLING, FALL TO THIS EARTH OR THE SUN OR ONLY ON ROCKY GROUND? OR NONE OF THE ABOVE??
From Galileo Galilei with changes:
SALVIATI. This would happen, Simplicio, if the moving body were to maintain it speed for any lengrh of time, at each DEGREE , of velocity (velocity in a summary of temperature-effective periods of fruit fly wing forming process could be occurring in these degrees and philosophy need not say otherwide as transfinites can retain any ordinal/cardinal inaccessible within) but it merely passes each point without delaying more than an instant: and since each time-interval (however) small may be divided into an infinite number of instants THESE, will always be sufficient [in number] to correspond to the infinite degrees of diminished velocity.
That such a heavy rising body does not remain for any length of time, at any given degree of velocity is evident from the following: because if, some time-interval having been assigned (Length of Larval Period in Hours ?), the body moves through temperature effective periods (range, length) it could from this second angle between histogeny and morphogeny(percent of larval period when effective period begins/ends)(growth vs development) degree of elevation in Sewall Wright's adaptive landscape, be in like manner raised through an equal height not a homeobox necessity, just as it was transferred by Stu Kaufmann from the first elevation to the second and by the same reasoning would pass from the second to the third andwould finally continue in uniform motion forever i\on the point between Fisher/Wright.
SAGREDO From these considerations it appears (to me)....We have to consider the possibility that evolution is supporting atomic science at THE EXPENSE of Michurianistic working work and not the other way around as it should be if science is to achieve a degree of univocity it currently lacks. Secondly if evolution is not even that correct it is possible that we industrially PREFVENT nature from returning to the natural place thought parent form and undermine eco-justice sustainability efforts by sheer will in conserveing something that is already confined!! It is beyond me why Rene Thom's catastrophe theory to say nothing of Cantor has not been taken up programmatically with Lewontin's triple helix socieity in much the same way that Wolfram did cellular automata but appaernly we would rather have Conan's barabarianbeclh of a brain than the electricity to animate.
Traditions that even if Maxwell's plenum and Cantor's contiuum hypothesis be relgated fabulous need the continutity in the thought process at issue to defend let alone offend any one, in order of time generally:
++Post-Maxwell electrotonic vs mole bio dynamic relplication releases physico-chemistry+++last century Lebseque/Borel and/or Wright/Fisher reciprocations to pure math++++biology of fractals and the 70's interest in theoretical biology by subtracted Rene Thom's analyticity (not continuity, please note)+++++the revival of creationism and the evolution vs post creative soviet darwininsm not creation vs evolution future of a priori neo-mendelism and rejection of sets areally windowed on the side.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Hugh_[Sir_Snotskis], posted 10-20-2001 9:08 AM Hugh_[Sir_Snotskis] has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 23 (2932)
01-26-2002 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by gmtbh
10-18-2001 11:17 PM


"I think that believing that there is a super natural being takes the beauty out of the world. The world is 6.1 billon people all making decisions which affect and change the course of the world and to me that is beautiful. To believe that somebody is controlling it all is to me taking the beauty out of the world."
--Have you ever taken time to watch what is going on in the world where '6.1 billon people all making decisions which affect and change the course of the world'? I don't find this beautiful in absolutely the least personally.
-------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by gmtbh, posted 10-18-2001 11:17 PM gmtbh has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-26-2002 7:21 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 23 of 23 (2933)
01-26-2002 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by TrueCreation
01-26-2002 6:58 PM


So CR, you looking for a prize, for having your name in the right column for all of the 11 most recent topics?
Concerning the state of the world:
I'm fond of quoting Bender, the robot from "Futurama"
"We're boned".
Also remember:
"To err is human, but truely fouling things up requires the use of a computer"
Moose
Added by edit: Seriously TC, I think you need to cut back. The intel-ectual quality of your content is skidding. The humor content is rising though.
The Moose from Green River
Wyoming, that is...
Ancient Lakes...
Fossel stars...
(Read while thinking "Beverly Hillbillies")
------------------
BS degree, geology, '83
Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Old Earth evolution - Yes
Godly creation - Maybe
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 01-26-2002]
[This message has been edited by minnemooseus, 01-26-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by TrueCreation, posted 01-26-2002 6:58 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
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