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Author Topic:   Nazism
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 9 of 91 (286369)
02-14-2006 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by macaroniandcheese
02-13-2006 6:10 PM


Re: reply to dan
Christian qoutes:
-"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
-"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."
Non Christian Quotes:
-Night of 11th-12th July, 1941
"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)
-10th October, 1941, midday
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)
-19th October, 1941, night
"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."
I could not find one truth in any of those statements.
Given what was done, I don't see how anyone who even knows just a few "red letters" could ever think that the nazis were Christians. You can call yourself anything you want, that doesn't make you it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-13-2006 6:10 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 02-14-2006 9:49 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 14 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-14-2006 12:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 22 of 91 (286814)
02-15-2006 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by macaroniandcheese
02-14-2006 12:53 PM


Re: reply to dan
did you actually read what i posted?
Of course. Try to justify those statements with any verses from the NT.
ABE and i'm really tired of the no-true-scotsman stuff, too.
How does this relate to the no-true-scotsman? It has nothing to do with that logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-14-2006 12:53 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2006 9:42 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 24 of 91 (286836)
02-15-2006 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by macaroniandcheese
02-15-2006 9:42 AM


Re: reply to dan
Of course. Try to justify those statements with any verses from the NT.
you clearly did not. i'm not making claims about christianity, i'm making claims about hitler. read the OP. and the claim i am making is that he was clearly neither christian nor an evolutionary atheist but rather culturally schitzophrenic. i can in no way back up that claim using the bible.
Right, so we agree. That is why I could find no truth in those statements.
by you claiming that just because someone calls himself a christian does not make him one, you are using the no-true-scotsman claim. it is as invalid now as it always is.
I disagree with that claim. I know what the no-true-scotsman fallacy is, and it is a fallacy itself.
People are not born Christian, like a scotsman. It's a choice, and you show that choice by your actions, that is what Jesus taught us.
No matter what you do as a scotsman, you will always be a scotsman. His behavior does not dictate who and what he really is. A scotsman cannot say to himself, I am no longer a scotsman. But a Christian can make a choice and say to himself, I am no longer a Christian. Or he can lie, and say he is one, but then not behave like one. That doesn't make him one.
So the no-true-scotsman fallacy does not apply to Christians. All the web-sites that claim it does, are just not logical.
I guess that is post-modern reasoning, once again proving there is no God. We are smarter now......
If this goes further, I will start another topic on this fallacy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-15-2006 9:42 AM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 27 by Modulous, posted 02-15-2006 1:02 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 35 of 91 (287210)
02-16-2006 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Modulous
02-15-2006 1:02 PM


Re: no true christian
Being a Christian isn't about your actions, its about your beliefs.
It is about your actions, but not initially. With true repentence, comes true change. Being saved, and believing in Christ is a continuing process, not a one time decision, and then your good to go.
quote:
1 John 5:18
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
1 John 4:8
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 John 3:24
Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
(Note: it doesn't say kill millions of Jews there)
1 John 3:15
Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
1 John 3:10
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Titus 1:16
They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.
There's a ton more.
There is also another verse, that I can't seem to find, but it was a bout some guys who claimed to know Jesus, but when Jesus spoke to them, he said that he didn't know them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Modulous, posted 02-15-2006 1:02 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Modulous, posted 02-16-2006 8:16 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 38 of 91 (287238)
02-16-2006 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Modulous
02-16-2006 8:16 AM


Re: no true christian
It doesn't say kill millions of Jews anywhere. According to Hitler, Jews are not our brothers.
According to Hitler, not Jesus. Who was he following?
It isn't murder to kill Jews.
Yes it is according to Jesus. Who was he following?
Killing Jews is right.
cough cough, um no.
In the end though, are you suggesting that if Hitler prayed for forgiveness for his sins, accepted Christ as his saviour and the Lord as his shepherd, that God, the Father, would turn His back?
Absolutly not. In the end he would have been accepted by God. He would have also been judged, and with all sins comes a price. Not everyone is on the same level in heaven. Hitler may in fact be there holding the door for everyone else, and he would be happy about it.
Remember to be forgiven means you must forgive everyone yourself. Hitler would have had to have had a big change of heart in order to do that.
But really I can't pretend to know what God's plan was in regards to all that, I can only speculate.
For all we know, Hitler was possessed by a demon, and every night in a brief moment of lucidity his soul prayed for forgiveness to the Lord God, and asked that his victims rest peacefully.
Could be.
Most of the time, the demon is us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Modulous, posted 02-16-2006 8:16 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Modulous, posted 02-16-2006 10:14 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 51 of 91 (293405)
03-08-2006 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Modulous
02-16-2006 10:14 AM


Re: no true christian
You'll have to ask Hitler.
Do we?
So its possible that Hitler was a Christian, but did terrible things, for which he sought the forgiveness of the Lord.
It is impossible for me or anyone else to "truely" know.
My opinion is that while he was doing all what he did, he was not a Christian, but on his death bed, who knows what he went through with the Lord.
If the Bible has taught me anything its that a fairly decent amount of time its demons...and given the extent of the death, I think if demons are responsible for anything of the world's ills, it would surely be that.
I think its refreshing that you said that.
Unless you think man has the capacity for more evil than demons.
If yes, then it would not be the rule, but an exception. That whole thought process makes my head want to explode.
If a person is evil without a demon being involved, then who is really accountable for that evil. The person, or the chain of events that led him to that point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Modulous, posted 02-16-2006 10:14 AM Modulous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 03-08-2006 5:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 55 of 91 (293531)
03-09-2006 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by ringo
03-08-2006 5:48 PM


Re: Don't blame the demons.
We are sheep or goats based on our own actions, nobody else's.
I would tend to agree with you, as I have not witnessed any demons, but maybe some people who may have been demon posessed.
You and jar cannot go refering to the bible and leave out all the demons that Jesus cast out of people. They exist period.
It may be your own actions that allow them to come in, but once inside you could possibly be helpless? I don't think you could cast out your own demon. Not sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ringo, posted 03-08-2006 5:48 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 03-09-2006 12:18 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 56 of 91 (293533)
03-09-2006 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
03-08-2006 6:04 PM


Re: Preach the Gospel, Brother Ringo
Matthew 4:24
News about him spread all over Syria, and people brought to him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering severe pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed, and he healed them.
Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'
Matthew 8:16
When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.
and so on.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 03-08-2006 6:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 10:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 60 of 91 (293766)
03-09-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
03-09-2006 10:11 AM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
Sorry, but you have a knowledge of good and evil. It's up to you to determine how YOU will behave. If you do wrong, it's because YOU did wrong, not because some devil or Satan is making you do it.
Nope, sorry got to disagree with you there. Your knowledge of good and evil is as only as good as the enviroment you were raised in. If it was full of evil, then it will go to you, just like a demon.
Who is accountable for your behavior then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 10:11 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 7:34 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 62 of 91 (293769)
03-09-2006 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
03-09-2006 12:18 PM


Re: Don't blame the demons.
Most cases of "demon possession" have all the same symptoms as mental illness.
I can not debate the topic, I am not an expert on it. But I have seen people with "mental illness" be cured through God's word, and power. Where medicine never helped them. They may not come out of it being perfect, but they are a lot better off then when they were on medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 03-09-2006 12:18 PM ringo has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 63 of 91 (293770)
03-09-2006 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by jar
03-09-2006 7:34 PM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
How can you say that, you just insulted millions of people.
Think of some little girl who gets raped when young. Her mind is screwd up for life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 7:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 7:41 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 65 of 91 (293782)
03-09-2006 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by jar
03-09-2006 7:41 PM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
Sorry but that is so totally unrelated to anything I said that all I can do is laugh.
Little girls getting raped makes you laugh?
Or is it you don't understand the phsychology behind it, or the spiritual reprecussions?
It is on topic, because Hitler could have been demon pocessed. But according to you it is impossible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 7:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 8:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 67 of 91 (293808)
03-10-2006 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
03-09-2006 8:49 PM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
If you read back over what I said, I think you'll find that I said the demon possesed excuse or devil made me do it defense is a cop out.
Ok, stop the silly word games, is it possible or not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 03-09-2006 8:49 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by jar, posted 03-10-2006 12:25 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 69 by ReverendDG, posted 03-10-2006 3:23 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 70 of 91 (293909)
03-10-2006 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by ReverendDG
03-10-2006 3:23 AM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
well so many illnesses were accounted as demonic attacks and found not to be why would you consider people getting attacked by demons more factual that illness?
we have yet to document true demonic attacks that it seems more prombible that they don't exist outside peoples minds
It has to do with the bible. Jar uses verses from the bible to explain things, and yet he seems to ignore some. So it is only his interpretation of the spiritual world then.
Demons either exist or they don't. I am not claiming either. I will believe it when I see it.
I know in my own life I was a certain way, and then I felt like God changed me, He tweaked me a little. To me it seemed like a supernatural event, and I lost some of my own "demons" in the snap of a finger. I was the way I was because of how I was raised. I feel I have been changed. I am not looking to side-step blame here. TO me thats up to the big judge in the sky.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ReverendDG, posted 03-10-2006 3:23 AM ReverendDG has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 03-10-2006 11:11 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 436 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 72 of 91 (294116)
03-10-2006 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
03-10-2006 11:11 AM


Re: Using the Demon cop-out.
If you must try to express what it is I think, at least try to come close.
Well if we get ino that debate, it may in fact wonder too far off-topic.
I suppose you might think tha people invite demons into them by their own actions, so that in the end they are in fact responsible.
Well this is how I feel too, but that doesn't explain the little girl who gets raped theory. I feel not only are you responsible for your own actions, but the actions of others when you do things to them. Cause and effect. I believe God will hold me accountable for my actions towards others and the things they caused in them. In effect I give demons to those people. I helped program those people to be the way they are by the way I treated them. Anything short of the Love of God, or trying to mimic it will lead to these destructive behaviors, or demons.
Only god can free us from our past, our demons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 03-10-2006 11:11 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Asgara, posted 03-10-2006 6:15 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
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