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Author Topic:   Billion Degrees! Have we stumbled upon something new?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 8 of 22 (294002)
03-10-2006 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by roxrkool
03-10-2006 12:36 PM


Re: Bump - Anyone fascinated by this?
roxrkool writes:
I was thinking that these super high temps would allow scientists to test how, or even if, decay rates are affected by such high temperatures.
I think temperature affecting decay rates can be eliminated. Since higher temperature is just faster motion of particles, and since motion is relative, the particles aren't moving relative to themselves and their decay rates won't change. We may observe a slower decay rate because of relativistic effects, but the actual decay rate won't have changed.
Collisions with other particles could cause nuclear reactions, but that's not the same thing as decay. And the possibility of nuclear reactions can be checked by looking for neutron emissions and for decay products.
Measuring such high temperatures is not simple, and a number of assumptions are involved, probably including the radius of the tungsten wires. Given that their machine is operating outside of its expected range, it seems more likely that they'll find a measurement or calibration problem rather than new physics.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by roxrkool, posted 03-10-2006 12:36 PM roxrkool has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Modulous, posted 03-10-2006 1:52 PM Percy has replied
 Message 14 by roxrkool, posted 03-10-2006 1:54 PM Percy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 15 of 22 (294036)
03-10-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Modulous
03-10-2006 1:52 PM


Re: new physics
Modulous writes:
I'm more inclined to think something previously unknown is going on...
I think so, too, and it seems consistent with the excerpt you posted from Z machine exceeds two billion degrees Kelvin: hotter than the interiors of stars:
Haines theorized that the rapid conversion of magnetic energy to a very high ion plasma temperature was achieved by unexpected instabilities at the point of ordinary stagnation: that is, the point at which ions and electrons should have been unable to travel further. The plasma should have collapsed, its internal energy radiated away. But for approximately 10 nanoseconds, some unknown energy was still pushing back against the magnetic field.
So at least part of the way they calculate temperature is based on how fast the plasma collapses. I don't even know how to think about the microturbulent magnetic fields mentioned in the article, but particles influenced by magnetic fields move in predictable ways, so they should be able to test whether that's the case.
The article makes it sound like the mystery of where the additional energy came from is the item of most significance, but we can probably safely assume that the "no free lunch" laws of thermodynamics still hold, and if we assume there's no new physics (I mean fundamental physics, not "Gee, we had no idea particles in microturbulent magnetic fields at high temperatures would behave this way") then the most interesting result is the ability to achieve temperatures of billions of degrees, because it's the inability to continuously maintain very high temperatures that has kept fusion from becoming a commercial possibility for power generation.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Modulous, posted 03-10-2006 1:52 PM Modulous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by cavediver, posted 03-11-2006 4:08 AM Percy has not replied

  
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