Motivations for the non-belief in God

In another thread Rawel Singh writes: I think that this explanation for the disbelief of atheists (and non-belief of agnostics) says more about Rawel Singh and other like minded theists than it does about atheists and agnostics. I disagree that these conclusions can be made by observing the behavior of atheists as compared to Christians; in fact, the statements of atheists themselves give very different (and varied) reasons for their disbelief.It might be interesting to start a thread to ask evangelical Christians (and other like minded theists) if they truly believe that Rawel has accurately described the reasons an atheist does not believe in God. If so, why do they believe this? Undoubtably many atheists and agnostics will surely describe why they believe as they do; why cannot their own statements be accepted at face value? Do the evangelicals who will continue to subscribe to Rawel's thesis despite the responses of the atheists and agnostics have their own motives for their beliefs?

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I would guess that in many cases it is simply a matter of going along with family cultural traditions.

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One thing that a lot of people continue to claim is that people accept Christianity because they are afraid of death and need the idea of an afterlife.I could come up with other reasons, like people accept Christianity because they need an outside agent to give meaning and purpose to their lives. As for me, it was a very difficult process when I stopped being a Christian and became an atheist. One of the biggest concerns I had was the idea that without a deity, morality would be relative and I could not determine right from wrong. The other was the fear that without a belief in Christianity, there might be no justice in the end: the good would live in misery with no recompense in the here after, while the wicked could reap the benefits of their wickedness in this life with no punishment. These are the ideas that made the transition to atheism very difficult; I will repeat what I have said before: I did not choose to not believe in God, whatever the evangelicals claim.But I am not going to make any kind of universal claim as to why people choose the beliefs that they do. I am quite certain that the reasons people believe what they do are diverse. I do remain curious, however, if people really do feel they "know" why other people believe what they do, and why insist on it even if the other people claim otherwise.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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Perhaps one can choose to read certain books and participate in certain discussions that lead them to unbelief, but that's very different from simply choosing to be an atheist.

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To a certain degree, one has a small amount of control over ones beliefs. As you say, Chronos, one can consciously choose to refuse to read or listen to anything that might present contrary facts, and one may choose to not think deeply about issues.But that seems to be an admission on the part of the wilfully ignorant one that if she were to think to deeply about a subject her opinions may change against her will.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Hello, knitrofreak.I brought your attention to this thread because in another thread you made the comment: You seem to be saying that you have an understanding why people would "choose" to accept the theory of evolution. I was trying to find you whether you really do think you understand peoples' motivations, and if so why you think that your ideas on this are correct.Edited to correct a typo.This message has been edited by Chiroptera, 28-Mar-2006 01:35 PM

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

I would suggest you ask Bertrand Russell that question, but unfortunately he has passed on.But several members on this board, namely Rawel Singh and kinitrofreak, have made claims that they know why an atheist believes as she does. As an atheist, I wrote this thread to give them an opportunity to tell me whether they really do think they understand me better than I do myself, and why they would think that.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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Take for instance someone who feels they are highly intelligent.

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Okay -- I feel that I am highly intelligent, so I can be an example.-

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Should that actually instill any sort of pride? I say, no.

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I agree. And for the very reason that you state (except that I would add that my intelligence, if it is indeed high, is also due to my upbringing and education as a child, which I had little control over).Now, what does this have to do with why I don't believe there is a god?

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

Just going by what other people have told me.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

I try to help out and not make trouble for people.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

I'll work on it.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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But the point is, being prideful over your actual or percieved intelligence is pretty asinine, only because you had no control over how smart you were going to be.

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I agree.-

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Maybe you do believe in God and you just aren't willing to admit it.

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And maybe I don't believe in God, and I am speaking the truth when I say that I don't. How could you know what I believe or do not believe, what I think or do not think, or feel or do not feel? The only way anyone (or at least anyone who does not know me well) can tell what I believe, think, or feel is when I tell them what I believe, think, or feel.But then, that is the purpose of this thread. There are many Christians, especially of the evangelical type, who seem to feel that they know what an atheist really believes, and what motivates her belief. I am asking why is it that one would insist that they know what I believe and why I believe the way I do?

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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If you had read the bible carefully enough, you would see that the Christians are rewarded for their good deeds, and the non-Christians are punished for their bad deeds.

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But Christians aren't punished for their bad deeds, nor non-Christians rewarded for their good deeds? Strange.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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All they have to do is accept it. It is by their own volition that they enter into hell.

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Actually, this is not quite true. According to that evangelical view (which I think you are espousing), one must accept Christ's sacrifice in order to be saved. However, obviously a belief in the existence of God and a belief that Jesus was his son (and God incarnate) is a prerequisite for this acceptance. If one does not believe in the existence of God or that Jesus, if he even existed at all, was anything more than another itinerate preacher, then one is in no position to "accept" anything.I do not believe in the existence of God or that Jesus was God incarnate. I do not voluntarily choose this belief; in fact, I fought against the loss of this belief. Therefore, if evangelical theology is correct, I will be sent to hell without my ever having made a voluntary choice.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

Ha ha.

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I know people who would have become hitman who were saved by the grace of God and changed.

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I know lots of non-Christians, agnostics, and atheists who never even considered being a hitman.-

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Religion plays a big role in affecting a person's morality.

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What about the upstanding non-Christians, agnostics, and atheists whose morality are already on par with any Christians and so don't need it to be affected?

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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God does not punish people for not chosing him. So you can forget about that right now. God punishes people for their own immorality (And no one can meet God's moral law). It just so happens that if we chose him and accept Jesus Christ as are savior, God writes are name in the lamb's book of life and blots out our sins.

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I think the problem is that many of us fail to see any essential difference.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw

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They goto hell because they won't admit how filthy they really are.

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You used a word inappropriately. The word "admit" implies that they refuse to acknowledge a truth that they recognize. However, these non-Christians, agnostics, and atheists do not believe in the evangelical theology and so do not recognize that they are filthy. They are stating what they sincerely believe to be the truth.

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"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." -- George Bernard Shaw